1960's Dansette Bermuda. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

joffreydw · 3rd Jan 2018, 10:35 am

Hi.

I own a 1960's Dansette Bermuda and it usually plays vintage records fine, but the record player almost always skips new records making it impossible to play them. Does anyone know how I can solve the skipping?

BTW, I do not have a lot of knowledge of record players etc.

Thanks.

Edward Huggins · 3rd Jan 2018, 12:14 pm

I suspect you are still innocently using the original Mono only cartridge.
If so, this will have permanently damaged your Stereo LP pressings.
Please advise the type of cartridge fitted or better still post a photo so we can advise you.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 3rd Jan 2018, 12:33 pm

Check that the stylus is in good condition, and replace if faulty - styli are available from firms such as 'A-V-A On-line, Musonic, and others - details in the 'sticky' threads. The stylus pressure (AKA Tracking weight) may also need checking, but perhaps more important than either of these, we need to know what cartridge is fitted. If it's the original mono type (TC8, X3M, etc.), modern stereo records should not be played unless a new stereo or stereo compatible cartridge is fitted. As has often been said on this forum, the older type of mono cartridge will wreck stereo records.

Audio1950 · 3rd Jan 2018, 4:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'LIVEWIRE?'

we need to know what cartridge is fitted. If it's the original mono type (TC8, X3M, etc.), modern stereo records should not be played unless a new stereo or stereo compatible cartridge is fitted. As has often been said on this forum, the older type of mono cartridge will wreck stereo records.

Surely the X3M was one of the first "stereo compatible" cartridges?

John10b · 3rd Jan 2018, 7:25 pm

According to the sticky and the list compiled by Ben, it is a Mono /Stereo compatable cartridge.
Cheers
John

Michael Maurice · 4th Jan 2018, 4:37 pm

This is a problem I've found with all ceramic cartridges though I must admit I haven't tried the red Chinese ones.

It only affects the modern pressings, played on older turntables. If anyone finds a solution please let me know.

Hartley118 · 4th Jan 2018, 6:32 pm

The fact that it tracks older discs OK implies that the arm bearings are reasonably free, though it's always worth checking - a little light oil in the arm bearing might relieve any slight stiffness there.

When you describe it as skipping on new records, are these newly issued discs? The reason I ask is that the older generation of studio balance engineers and disc cutting engineers were very disciplined about avoiding out of phase low frequencies in the stereo cut. Not only are these out of phase signals pointless for the listener because they cancel in the listening room, more importantly they give rise to high vertical amplitudes in the groove modulation. This in turn can result in the problem that the groove becomes very narrow at peak amplitudes so that the moving parts of the cartridge/stylus need to be very compliant to follow the groove. Otherwise the stylus will be launched out of the groove.

Unfortunately, many ceramic cartridges do tend to be lacking in the vertical compliance department because they depend on flexing of the ceramic elements to produce their high output voltage. Magnetic cartridges are generally more compliant.

This art of good disc cutting may well have been lost during the CD/Download audio era. So it's quite likely that today's new issues are cut from studio masters which do contain more out of phase low frequencies than discs made back in the day.

I suggest trying an increased tracking weight, starting by sticking a penny (or 5 cent) coin to the head with a little Blu-tack. That will increase the tracking weight by around 3-4 grams. As a general rule, it's much better for the disc to ensure reliable continuous contact between stylus and groove rather than risking skipping. Often tracking weights are set too light in the mistaken belief that this reduces record wear. The opposite is true - better to err on the high side.

Martin

Edward Huggins · 4th Jan 2018, 8:59 pm

Ouch! Just tacking a coin on does not sound like one of our more elegant suggestions. Anyway, we've still to hear the OP's comments on our many and varied responses.......

Hartley118 · 5th Jan 2018, 8:46 am

A coin is a neat way of increasing the tracking weight by a precisely known amount. If it solves the problem, then the OP can delve into (usually more complex) tracking weight adjustments within the arm, but they really require careful use of a tracking weight gauge if you're to know what you're doing.

Martin

Edward Huggins · 6th Jan 2018, 11:13 am

Well, I was hoping we might have heard from jofreydw as I'm sure we can very swiftly and easily solve his problem. However, the cynic in me says that whenever we see a first-time Poster, and with a Dansette query, the outcome is never certain....

Edward Huggins · 14th Jan 2018, 5:16 pm

We never did hear back from the OP. The advice was clear and well intentioned and would probably have solved the problem. Maybe we'll never know.....or was it something we said?

Station X · 14th Jan 2018, 5:20 pm

I've ceased to concern myself as to why newbies, particularly in this section, do not return after posting.

I do try not to discourage them though and I refrain from saying such things as "They should have replied by now".

Back on topic please.

Boater Sam · 15th Jan 2018, 2:09 am

Perhaps it is simply a case of the penny has dropped?
I have noticed that new LPs look different on the groove, as though they are a different light reflection.
The red Chinese cartridges work fine tracking at 3 to 7 gms I find even on old arms like the Decca 94 I had (and sold on to go to Japan! )

3rd Jan 2018, 10:35 am	#1
joffreydw Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Brasschaat, Belgium. Posts: 1	1960's Dansette Bermuda. Hi. I own a 1960's Dansette Bermuda and it usually plays vintage records fine, but the record player almost always skips new records making it impossible to play them. Does anyone know how I can solve the skipping? BTW, I do not have a lot of knowledge of record players etc. Thanks.

3rd Jan 2018, 12:14 pm	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. I suspect you are still innocently using the original Mono only cartridge. If so, this will have permanently damaged your Stereo LP pressings. Please advise the type of cartridge fitted or better still post a photo so we can advise you. __________________ Edward.

3rd Jan 2018, 12:33 pm	#3
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. Check that the stylus is in good condition, and replace if faulty - styli are available from firms such as 'A-V-A On-line, Musonic, and others - details in the 'sticky' threads. The stylus pressure (AKA Tracking weight) may also need checking, but perhaps more important than either of these, we need to know what cartridge is fitted. If it's the original mono type (TC8, X3M, etc.), modern stereo records should not be played unless a new stereo or stereo compatible cartridge is fitted. As has often been said on this forum, the older type of mono cartridge will wreck stereo records.

3rd Jan 2018, 7:25 pm	#5
John10b Nonode Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 2,884	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. According to the sticky and the list compiled by Ben, it is a Mono /Stereo compatable cartridge. Cheers John

4th Jan 2018, 4:37 pm	#6
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. This is a problem I've found with all ceramic cartridges though I must admit I haven't tried the red Chinese ones. It only affects the modern pressings, played on older turntables. If anyone finds a solution please let me know. __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

4th Jan 2018, 6:32 pm	#7
Hartley118 Nonode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK. Posts: 2,198	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. The fact that it tracks older discs OK implies that the arm bearings are reasonably free, though it's always worth checking - a little light oil in the arm bearing might relieve any slight stiffness there. When you describe it as skipping on new records, are these newly issued discs? The reason I ask is that the older generation of studio balance engineers and disc cutting engineers were very disciplined about avoiding out of phase low frequencies in the stereo cut. Not only are these out of phase signals pointless for the listener because they cancel in the listening room, more importantly they give rise to high vertical amplitudes in the groove modulation. This in turn can result in the problem that the groove becomes very narrow at peak amplitudes so that the moving parts of the cartridge/stylus need to be very compliant to follow the groove. Otherwise the stylus will be launched out of the groove. Unfortunately, many ceramic cartridges do tend to be lacking in the vertical compliance department because they depend on flexing of the ceramic elements to produce their high output voltage. Magnetic cartridges are generally more compliant. This art of good disc cutting may well have been lost during the CD/Download audio era. So it's quite likely that today's new issues are cut from studio masters which do contain more out of phase low frequencies than discs made back in the day. I suggest trying an increased tracking weight, starting by sticking a penny (or 5 cent) coin to the head with a little Blu-tack. That will increase the tracking weight by around 3-4 grams. As a general rule, it's much better for the disc to ensure reliable continuous contact between stylus and groove rather than risking skipping. Often tracking weights are set too light in the mistaken belief that this reduces record wear. The opposite is true - better to err on the high side. Martin __________________ BVWS Member

4th Jan 2018, 8:59 pm	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. Ouch! Just tacking a coin on does not sound like one of our more elegant suggestions. Anyway, we've still to hear the OP's comments on our many and varied responses....... __________________ Edward.

5th Jan 2018, 8:46 am	#9
Hartley118 Nonode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK. Posts: 2,198	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. A coin is a neat way of increasing the tracking weight by a precisely known amount. If it solves the problem, then the OP can delve into (usually more complex) tracking weight adjustments within the arm, but they really require careful use of a tracking weight gauge if you're to know what you're doing. Martin __________________ BVWS Member

6th Jan 2018, 11:13 am	#10
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. Well, I was hoping we might have heard from jofreydw as I'm sure we can very swiftly and easily solve his problem. However, the cynic in me says that whenever we see a first-time Poster, and with a Dansette query, the outcome is never certain.... __________________ Edward.

14th Jan 2018, 5:16 pm	#11
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. We never did hear back from the OP. The advice was clear and well intentioned and would probably have solved the problem. Maybe we'll never know.....or was it something we said? __________________ Edward.

14th Jan 2018, 5:20 pm	#12
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. I've ceased to concern myself as to why newbies, particularly in this section, do not return after posting. I do try not to discourage them though and I refrain from saying such things as "They should have replied by now". Back on topic please. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Jan 2018, 2:09 am	#13
Boater Sam Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines. Posts: 3,897	Re: 1960's Dansette Bermuda. Perhaps it is simply a case of the penny has dropped? I have noticed that new LPs look different on the groove, as though they are a different light reflection. The red Chinese cartridges work fine tracking at 3 to 7 gms I find even on old arms like the Decca 94 I had (and sold on to go to Japan! )