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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 19th Sep 2020, 12:23 pm   #81
Timbucus
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I do already have one PIC14 which I built some time ago in a calculator-style body but it would be nice to have this one going as well - as I've said before, there is nothing more melancholy than an unbuilt kit or project.
Well I seem to assemble the parts for kits faster than I can build them. At the moment waiting in the pile either because I lack a part or I spotted a squirrel (AKA more interesting kit):

ZX80 - I have a full kit now but, it looks so lovely and my 3D printer still has a fault to print the enclosure so I want to fix that first.
ZX81/80 Grant Searle Board from Phil
1702 EPROM board - also from Phil
Martin MK14 V - I keep stealing parts to finish others
Lower case board for Dragon
64K upgrade to Dragon to make full use of the Plus board it has
Valve and Crystal radio kits

and of course after the conversation the other day I just had my 1MHz crystal delivered as the final part for an Acorn System 1 clone...

I also have part finished:
The Z80 uP dev kit I picked up - I did build the SBC Z80 for it though last weekend : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_iBL94jGdw
My uAlpha Micro clone
My Teletype conversion from an EX42 as in ETI Oct 83
The SCRUMPI 3 Keyboard to add to my now adapted Veroboard unit that is a hybrid SCRUMPI 2 with EPROM socket. Then of course to do the VDU circuit.

Quite apart from the SB+ and SuperBlinkenator projects I am Beta testing for the creators in my Spectrum Next... but, that is not really totally vintage.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 12:32 pm   #82
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Do you have the required PROMs for the System 1?

It sounds as though the very next clone you need to make is at least one of yourself, so he / it can give you a helping hand with all of this.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 12:43 pm   #83
Timbucus
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

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Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Do you have the required PROMs for the System 1?
I have a few blank 571 (forgot to say I have the parts to make an MK14 EPROM programmer but, no PCB) and some Tesla - which I would LIKE to make a programmer for...

but, in this instance I have burnt a 2716 which can be jumper selected as the boot PROM on a System 1 until I get around to the above...

Quote:
It sounds as though the very next clone you need to make is at least one of yourself, so he / it can give you a helping hand with all of this.
Indeed perhaps although then I would have one more kit on the list and I would not get the fun of the other kits he would!
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 12:51 pm   #84
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

If you can supply the code and Nat Semi 74S571s or any of the non-Tesla pin-compatible alternatives from AMD, Signetics, etc, I'd be happy to programme those for you, although of course I won't have a machine to test them in as I do when I programme MK14 PROMs.

Sounds as though you have something to get you going for the time being, anyway.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 1:13 pm   #85
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Very interesting Tim, nice to see the Z80 build.
I'm building up a backlog too, so I really must get my domestic situation sorted and get that stuff out of storage.
I've got:
1) To finish the PIC14, parts are coming in I'm mostly waiting on the capacitors now, have started soldering bits in
2) Want to build my Series VI MK14, got me some buttons for it but the rest is in storage
3) Want to build the ZX80/1 clone from the board Tim gave me
4) I gave into weakness and bought a pair of the Acorn 1 boards that were on Ebay. A lot of the components I have in storage, and I snapped up some D6 buttons that were going for about 20p each so I have 60 of those...all black but there you are. I do have some other colours in storage.
5) I also have in storage 2 commodore pets, a BBC Micro, an atari 400 and a 800XL all in need of restoring to function, so that'll be fun.
6) In the storage space of dreams there's also my paper tape punch, a Olivetti (or is it Olympia?) Nixie desktop calculator that needs bringing back to life if possible.
7) I have a load of Z80 CPU, Z80 PIO, Z80 CTC and Z80SIO chips, 6809's and 6309s, 6116 Rams, 62256 Rams, sound chips, CRTCs, several Gigabytes of EPROM for some reaason and a zillion ideas......

So, just need to get moved, empty storage and I'll never be bored!

So the PIC14 is sort of a warm-up for me!

Oh yes I need to make that PROM programmer and finish my MK14 uploader too!

Last edited by Slothie; 19th Sep 2020 at 1:14 pm. Reason: additional info
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 3:29 pm   #86
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Well I seem to have successfully programmed the PIC with the code from Karen's website.... And no smoke!
I've paused the assembly because my cutters are just chewing the legs off rather than cutting, and I'm expecting some new ones monday/tuesday. Had a few things arrive yesterday so all I'm awaiting is the cutters and the capacitors!
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 3:51 pm   #87
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

I use toenail clippers, much better than sidecutters (a dedicated pair, obs...)
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:06 pm   #88
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

I, strangely enough, usually trim my fingernails with the sidecutters on my bench but that is because I often break one when trying to get something apart, so the fastest 'fix' is just to snip the broken bits off with what I have to hand, and then the others don't match so I have to trim the rest as well.

Well done with the PIC programming project, nice to have another 'way' to do that. Now all we need is the same sort of thing for Tesla MH74S571s (see what I did there...).
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:35 pm   #89
Slothie
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

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Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Well done with the PIC programming project, nice to have another 'way' to do that. Now all we need is the same sort of thing for Tesla MH74S571s (see what I did there...).
I did. Its still in my top 3 projects for when I get my test gear back! I've actually been thinking of it from time to time and noted a few things. I just need to be able to experiment with the power switching side of things as that is where my design experience weaknesses are!

I do have 20 MH74S571s sitting waiting to be test subjects. Hopefully only a few will perish in the attempt!
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 11:00 pm   #90
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Not my neatest work but the nail clippers cut really close:
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 9:53 am   #91
Phil__G
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Slothie, a quick question please - until now all the pics I've used default to the internal RC clock, from the 877 datasheet I see it also defaults to RC but but the actual R and C are external - does the 877 program ok without, as it appears your photo above?
Ta v much
Phil
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 10:30 am   #92
Slothie
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil__G View Post
Slothie, a quick question please - until now all the pics I've used default to the internal RC clock, from the 877 datasheet I see it also defaults to RC but but the actual R and C are external - does the 877 program ok without, as it appears your photo above?
Ta v much
Phil
Yes, in programming mode it uses some internal clock for programming, you don't need any external components. I'm pretty sure this applies even if the fuses have been programmed for external sources, crystals etc
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 11:20 am   #93
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Excellent thanks
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 8:32 pm   #94
Timbucus
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

I have just programmed mine in my TL866II+ using its software under Wine on Linux if people are looking for ways to do it. I have only ever used it for EPROMS and also recently testing Logic chips in more detail than my mini tester.

Behold it lives thanks to Karen and Phil:
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 8:38 pm   #95
Slothie
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

{Wormhole From the VDU Thread}
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
I will move to the PIC14 thread now for this but, as it is relevant to this project for anyone reading: the TL866II+ programmer I have, running its software under Wine on Linux programmed one of my PIC16F877's fine - I know this because my display on the PIC14 says 0000 00 - thanks Karen and Phil!

Ordered the PIC and Crystal for the VDU just now so one project down so time to start this one
Dagnabbit! Beat me to it. You genuinely are a bit of a wizard. I could complain about limted daylight, tools, blah blah but its mostly my eyesight. Although thats better than my MK14 prototype build which was before my eye operation and I didn't have stereo vision which is surprisingly inconvenient when soldering.
I've ordered a magnifying desk lamp thingie which should help with my eyesight and working in the evenings. Its now a race between that arriving and me finishing in the 2 hour slots I get between care home regime and failing sunlight. My soldering has improved after its 18 month holiday, the first resistor I put in looks terrible but I'm going to leave it lest I damage the PCB trying to make it look nice!

I used my non-plus TL866 on Linux in Wine. When I recently re-installed Linux it stopped working (well the software, the hardware is in storage....) so I probably need to uninstall it from Wine and re-install so it picks up the right DLLs or something. Did you use the patched setupapi.dll from radioman or does it now work natively?
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 8:49 pm   #96
Timbucus
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothie View Post
{Wormhole From the VDU Thread}
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
... I know this because my display on the PIC14 says 0000 00 - thanks Karen and Phil!...
Dagnabbit! Beat me to it. You genuinely are a bit of a wizard. I could complain about limted daylight, tools, blah blah but its mostly my eyesight. Although thats better than my MK14 prototype build which was before my eye operation and I didn't have stereo vision which is surprisingly inconvenient when soldering.
I've ordered a magnifying desk lamp thingie which should help with my eyesight and working in the evenings. Its now a race between that arriving and me finishing in the 2 hour slots I get between care home regime and failing sunlight. My soldering has improved after its 18 month holiday, the first resistor I put in looks terrible but I'm going to leave it lest I damage the PCB trying to make it look nice!
To play fair I had almost all the parts already so had put them all on a few days ago so tonight was just the transistors, two caps, crystal, one resistor, regulator and the external connector. The display was lifted from my MK14 as I have all mine on the same plug in arrangement so I can swap displays easily. I will use the same header on my System 1.

My eyesight is not brilliant any more but, I have been back to full strength with the desk lamp magnifying thingy I bought last year - best thing I ever did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothie View Post
I used my non-plus TL866 on Linux in Wine. When I recently re-installed Linux it stopped working (well the software, the hardware is in storage....) so I probably need to uninstall it from Wine and re-install so it picks up the right DLLs or something. Did you use the patched setupapi.dll from radioman or does it now work natively?
It was a while ago I installed it but, I did need to put in setupapi.dll to get it to work I believe.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 9:22 pm   #97
Slothie
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
The display was lifted from my MK14 as I have all mine on the same plug in arrangement so I can swap displays easily. I will use the same header on my System 1.
That's what I'm going to do with the display you sent me. I've got some 16 way right-angle dupont sockets and 0.1" headers, bending the leads on the sockets to 45 degrees should allow me to plug in the display at a jaunty angle. SiriusH did send me a ribbon cable strip but I'm saving that for my MK14 VI when I get the parts for that. I think having a moveable display will be useful for my Acorn 1 whenever I get to that too. But I think thats lower on my todo list than the Tesla PROM programmer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
It was a while ago I installed it but, I did need to put in setupapi.dll to get it to work I believe.
Yes I might fiddle with that again, I was going to see if I could use it as a hex file editor to make up ROM images until I get the Hardware out of storage.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 6:18 pm   #98
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

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Originally Posted by Slothie View Post
Dagnabbit! Beat me to it.
...Vrrroooooommm...

....That sound we hear as Tim appears out of nowhere and overtakes us on the final straight. Again.

For the PIC-VDU All I need to do now is wire up a connector, and yet I somehow suspect that Tim will still have one up and running before I do.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 3:34 pm   #99
Slothie
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

My PIC14 is coming on - well until I stuffed up. I was (trying) to solder the display and the pads just wouldnt take solder. In trying to sort this out I cooked the display and lifted some of the pads. Hindsight says I should have cleaned and fluxed the pads but they didn't look obviously oxidised so I charged ahead. Oops.
So I've ordered another from eBay. Luckily a guy (gal?) in the Netherlands is selling 10 TIL displays for 20ish so its not a complere disaster I've just got another delay. Still I can use that time to find some scotchbrite or fine sandpaper.
Anyway I've attached a picture of the progress so far. Ignore the blutak supporting the serial module...
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 6:46 pm   #100
Timbucus
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Default Re: PIC 14 Karen

Yes sorry I should have warned you that those needed a good scrub - I think they have some kind of coating on them. Sounds like the same place I got those from...
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