Fire at lacquer plant threatens vinyl record production

[GrimJosef]

This is not strictly a vintage issue, so mods may want to move it to Modern Technology. But one of the nice things about vintage audio equipment is that it can make a very good job of reproducing current music.

Unfortunately a catastrophic fire yesterday appears to have destroyed one of only two plants in the world which can make the lacquer masters needed for vinyl record production https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...ers-plant-fire. The one that's gone was the larger of the two, responsible for an estimated 80% of the world's supply. In the short term at least it may be hard to cut new vinyl .

Cheers,

GJ

[Nuvistor]

That’s very sad, I have no interest in vinyl records but many have, it’s a loss for them. We will have to see if Apollo can rebuild, someone else buys their knowledge or MDC expands.
It’s not going to be a quick solution whatever occurs.
So are vinyl records going to more collectable and more expensive?

I do wonder what percentage of the vinyl purchases are played or just used for art work. Forum members will be listening to their collection but various surveys have noted the use of them for art work and then either buying a digital copy or streaming.

[Ted Kendall]

The vinyl revival has been riding its luck for a long time - no new lathes, pressing machines or cutting heads have been made for decades, as the market has not been big enough to attract the necessary investment. Whether somebody's neck is going to be stuck out enough to invest in rebuilding a lacquer plant for what is in cash terms primarily a fashion market is a moot point.

[Electronpusher0]

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

I do wonder what percentage of the vinyl purchases are played or just used for art work.

My 24 year old son mainly listens to Spotify but when he buys music its always Vinyl, and he plays them, on a Dual 505-2 with Shure N97HE I reconditioned for him.
Of course he loves the artwork as well and several album covers adorn his room.

Peter

[evingar]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

The vinyl revival has been riding its luck for a long time - no new lathes, pressing machines or cutting heads have been made for decades, as the market has not been big enough to attract the necessary investment. Whether somebody's neck is going to be stuck out enough to invest in rebuilding a lacquer plant for what is in cash terms primarily a fashion market is a moot point.

Unlikely I would have thought

[GrimJosef]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

The vinyl revival has been riding its luck for a long time - no new lathes, pressing machines or cutting heads have been made for decades, as the market has not been big enough to attract the necessary investment. Whether somebody's neck is going to be stuck out enough to invest in rebuilding a lacquer plant for what is in cash terms primarily a fashion market is a moot point.

Here is a current production Canadian press https://www.viryltech.com/. Here is a current production German one https://newbilt-machinery.com/. I don't know whether the plant was insured but if it was then there might be money to rebuild it. This 'fashion market' has been around for more than a decade and some are certainly putting resource into it.

Cheers,

GJ

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

The vinyl revival has been riding its luck for a long time - no new lathes, pressing machines or cutting heads have been made for decades, as the market has not been big enough to attract the necessary investment. Whether somebody's neck is going to be stuck out enough to invest in rebuilding a lacquer plant for what is in cash terms primarily a fashion market is a moot point.

My thoughts exactly. The industry needs to decide if it's producing a serious product with a long term future, or whether it's just exploiting a fad by sweating 50 year old assets.

I must admit to being surprised at how long the 'vinyl revival' has lasted though.

[Radio Wrangler]

The revival needs a number of things to continue. The lack of any one will stop it. Is anyone making cutter heads? Lathes ought to last a reasonable time but cutters are wearing parts.

There seems to be one firm making affordable replay cartridges, but only magnetic ones, other than the red and black Chinese piezo jobs.

The cassette resurgeance will be limited by irreplaceable tape heads.

The fads will come to an end unless quite a few manufacturing processes are cranked up once again. The difference now is that modern business is much more demanding in wanting to see assured and prolonged turnover and profit before dipping its toe into anything 'new' to it.

There's enough stuff around for us old wierdos to play with or to put in a museum, but a consumer surge needs orders of magnitude more.

David

[evingar]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

There's enough stuff around for us old wierdos to play with or to put in a museum, but a consumer surge needs orders of magnitude more.

The focus of most companies is to the future - and for good reason. The future yields a lot of knowns, but also massive potential if they get it right. By contrast vinyl is a mature industry and it's limited by demand that will always be specialist and well defined. Every household;d is not going to suddenly demand an old style record player. The upside is limited.

[GrimJosef]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

... The difference now is that modern business is much more demanding in wanting to see assured and prolonged turnover and profit before dipping its toe into anything 'new' to it ...

If that's right then we're forced to the conclusion that the Canadians and the Germans can see assured and prolonged turnover and profit. Rather than dipping their toes in they've taken the plunge and found the water lovely .

I guess in time we'll know how the lacquer manufacters see things. Either the Californians won't bother re-opening, the Japanese won't invest any more and no-one else will take up the slack. Output will stay at 20% of what it was a couple of days ago and no-one will mind much. Or someone will decide to restore the supply. If I were a betting man I know which I'd be betting on.

There was a time when people thought valve production would cease. I think that time was about 30-40 years ago.

Cheers,

GJ

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by GrimJosef

Here is a current production Canadian press https://www.viryltech.com/. Here is a current production German one https://newbilt-machinery.com/.

Neither of those produce the blank discs that Apollo did. Those links are to moulding machine manufacturers which is a much later stage of the process. The other possible issue is that Apollo were one of only two manufacturers of cutting stylii.

However, one of the biggest plants in Europe uses Direct Metal Mastering at their in-house cutting facility so won't be affected and Abbey Road can also do DMM.

I don't know how much slack there is in the supply chain for blank master discs but I do know that there are a great many short run vinyl releases of only a few hundred copies each which places more of a demand on cutting facilities than it does on the pressing plants. It will be interesting to see if MDC, the other supplier of blank discs, can keep up.

[Ted Kendall]

The advent of new presses is encouraging, but a shortage of lacquers could choke off the supply of new releases. Most lathes can't use copper blanks, in any case.

[GrimJosef]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

Neither of those produce the blank discs that Apollo did. Those links are to moulding machine manufacturers which is a much later stage of the process ...

Exactly. I linked to them to show that the vinyl business is now strong enough that new investment is being made. The industry, in some parts at least, is no longer relying on legacy equipment. That was why the fire at Apollo was so tragic. That part of the chain hasn't yet seen new suppliers enter it.

Cheers,

GJ

[bikerhifinut]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

There seems to be one firm making affordable replay cartridges, but only magnetic ones, other than the red and black Chinese piezo jobs.

Define "affordable" David please?

I have just done a "pints of beer" rough calculation on the basic Goldring G850 cartridge that was found in many budget setups in the early 70s. it was as I remember roughly £6.50 at a time when a pint of beer in a pub was around 20p or even less in the North!
Anyway I figured it out at about £90 in todays money.
I can think of more than one current manufacturer that will produce a cartridge for less than that, AT with their latest VM95 range starts at £30 for the basic conical tip, Ortofon OM5E I saw only yesterday from a main dealer at £45 and that's a corking transducer. or the OM1S for £30, Rega's Bias which as far as I am aware is made in Southend is up there at £83 but boasts a bit more refinement but still in the equivalent ball park. Grados basics again come in just under my arbitrary £90 limit. And it's possible to get a Nagaoka MP100 at around £90 if you shop around. Goldrings own manufacture starts a bit above that priceband, their own current budget range are OEM for them by AT and I suspect are just VM95 types in different clothes. As is the rega carbon so I don't count that as its more or less an AT91.
It's a shame Shure pulled out for sure (oops) as their products were honest and did the job well.
When a new LP starts at £15 and usually nearer to £20 then a bit of perspective also helps I think.

I don't wish to start a fight but just wanted to put a couple of things straight.
Regards.

A.

[joebog1]

I dont want too many new releases!! There are still about 40,000 LP,s from the 50's, 60's and 70's I dont have in my collection . The 80's was already struggling with true new talent and music in general.
Yes !!! Artwork on LP sleeves is wonderful, I still have a book from Roger Dean, that is just LP artwork.
I must admit the little tatty bits of paper folded 36 times, and printed with a MAXIMUM size of 12 pixels per letter usually dark blue print on black gloss 30 GSM paper is a delight to behold!!. Mostly the colour registration of the "pitcha" on the outside is only off slightly. What is contained inside is usually a true disaster Death thrash metal with lyrics pertaining to somebody's not very moral mother. OVER and OVER again. Sometimes its just a random collection of square waves over modulated or undersampled to create fear in the nastiest enemy.

WE need an LP industry!! Its a shame these things happen. Only yesterday I listened to my origional Umma Gumma LP. ( I also went to the Saucerful of Secrets concert in 1970 I think, at Randwick racecourse in Sydney). Now that was excellent for the time, even today its a masterpiece !!

Just my two bobs worth


Joe

[Radio Wrangler]

I'd forgotten Ortofon!

David

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

Abbey Road can also do DMM.

I've just found out that they no longer do DMM at Abbey Road.

[Nuvistor]

What is the quality of the new pressings?

The 1950’/60’s pressings LP’s played extremely well on equipment of that date, the 1970’s saw some very poor ones even from the better manufacturers. I bought few LP’s in the 80’s and none after that.

The local HMV shop have quite a lot of records, I have not looked closely but seem to be releases of 70/80’s material, perhaps I didn’t look close enough and there are later ones.

[Ted Kendall]

I haven't bought many modern pressings but those I have seem pretty good to me - decent appearance and quiet surfaces. Perhaps there is less pressure on time and material quality now that it is a niche market.

[paulsherwin]

1970s pressing quality was certainly pretty grim, with noisy and off centre pressings commonplace. Often you would take them back and the replacement would be no better. I suspect this hastened the switch to CD despite the cost.

I'm no expert on current production vinyl, but I get the impression that the quality control is now much better despite the age of the equipment. The market for vinyl has changed, and it is sold as a premium product with prices to match.