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Old 7th Dec 2018, 4:02 pm   #41
Nuvistor
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

In the 1970’s we had the Dynatron dealership in the town and we had friendly competition with long standing B&O dealer in the town.
From what I saw of the mid range units the B&O were no better than the Dynatrons, the purchase was decided on the styling, the Sleek modern B&O style or the more staid Dynatron.
The comments were we don’t like the look of the B&O but liked the Dynatron, similarly we had the opposite after looking at our offerings and said they would rather have the look of the B&O left the shop and presumably bought that.

I can’t comment on the top range B&O but the Dyntron HFC90, I think that’s the model number, gave a good account of itself.

We had the Rogers range in as well as the Hacker Class A amp/receivers, those to me were better devices.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 4:22 pm   #42
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
You say all that but when the Hifi choice books were published in the 70s and 80s, the tested B&O stuff was usually not very good to say the least. Just to be clear for anyone who is not aware, Hifi Choice is not the monthly Hifi mag that it is now, it was series of in depth, lab based reports in the form of A5 books on hifi components performed by the likes of the great Angus Mckenzie and simultaneously auditioned by leading hifi journalists, studio technicians, musicians etc. So they were in some ways 'the bible' when it came to how good or bad a component was. Particularly 'not good' was B&O's speakers. But the other stuff was rarely given great reviews. I have nothing against B&O BTW, and I accept the design milestones they achieved, but at the end of the day their individual hifi products weren't up there with the best performance wise.
Wrong again. The Beogram 8002 for example was considered the equal of any turntable in the issue it was in, and there were a few good ones that year. The Beocord 9000 was similarly raved about when first tested, although NK didn't like it so much when he tried it. He did give the 5000 a 'recommended' tag when he tried it though, despite its high(ish) price. That's just a couple off the top of my head, I don't have a full set of the books.

As a B&O user I hear this a lot, all show and no go etc, so I ask what the person particularly doesn't like about the Beolab 5000 system, or the Beomaster 4400, or the Beogram 8000, or the Beovox MS150, or the Beocord 9000, or the Beogram CD5500. Of course they've never heard of any of them (let alone used them), which is a bit like pontificating about French cities despite never having visited Paris...
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 5:26 pm   #43
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

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As a B&O user I hear this a lot, all show and no go etc, so I ask what the person particularly doesn't like about the Beolab 5000 system, or the Beomaster 4400, or the Beogram 8000, or the Beovox MS150, or the Beocord 9000, or the Beogram CD5500. Of course they've never heard of any of them (let alone used them), which is a bit like pontificating about French cities despite never having visited Paris...
This is so true. I have only ever listened seriously to one top of the range B&O system dating from the seventies. It was owned by a very wealthy acquaintance at the time and used a linear tracking arm. Can't remember the system number but it was superb. Haven't heard anything that much better before or since.

Alan
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 6:21 pm   #44
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

That's the big thing about separates, you can pick things you like without having to buy into some firm's whole lifestyle.

The first B&O machine with a tangential, linear-tracking arm was the Beogram 4000. Its looks got it into the louvre and the museum of modern art but it wasn't all looks, it was backed up with some excellent engineering inside. I like them enough to have one. I think it's good enough to not have any other turntable.

However, I've looked at the design of a number (not all) of B7O's amplifiers and I'm not attracted. My opinion. Others are welcome to have their opinions. I've been inside a number to repair them. I chose to go my own way on amplifiers.

For tape machines, the Beocord didn't do it for me, so a Revox A77 does the job.

Some of B&O's later speakers may be a bit better, but I think their speakers may have been their weakest point. They still don't have anything that competes with large transmission line jobs which are my preference. I haven't been out to find and hear a pair of their latest Dalek-like creations so I can't comment on them. I'm happy with what I have.

I was very impressed with B&O's early tuners like the Beolab 3500 tuner (not to be confused with their tuner amplifiers)

You pays your money and you takes your choice. And nowadays you can have a lot of choice for not much money. Open eyes and luck are more effective than big bucks.

David
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 7:10 pm   #45
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Hifi Choice is not the monthly Hifi mag that it is now, it was series of in depth, lab based reports in the form of A5 books on hifi components performed by the likes of the great Angus Mckenzie and simultaneously auditioned by leading hifi journalists, studio technicians, musicians etc.
Ah, Angus McKenzie! I have the first Hi-Fi Choice A5 loudspeaker test book that he did, and it was pretty clear that he hated all of the models he was being forced to review, with the exception of the Yamaha NS-1000s and possibly the Spendor BC1s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Some of B&O's later speakers may be a bit better, but I think their speakers may have been their weakest point. They still don't have anything that competes with large transmission line jobs which are my preference. I haven't been out to find and hear a pair of their latest Dalek-like creations so I can't comment on them. I'm happy with what I have.
I’m genuinely not arguing here, but would be interested to know if you’ve ever heard Beovox MS150s, which were the largest passive speakers B&O ever made? I have a pair and their bass is absolutely stunning and certainly on a par, and in some cases better than, the transmission line speakers I have owned, and I’ve owned one or two!

As to their latest creations, you could say I’m a fan...
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 9:37 pm   #46
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Hifi Choice is not the monthly Hifi mag that it is now, it was series of in depth, lab based reports in the form of A5 books on hifi components performed by the likes of the great Angus Mckenzie and simultaneously auditioned by leading hifi journalists, studio technicians, musicians etc.
Ah, Angus McKenzie! I have the first Hi-Fi Choice A5 loudspeaker test book that he did, and it was pretty clear that he hated all of the models he was being forced to review, with the exception of the Yamaha NS-1000s and possibly the Spendor BC1s!
If Angus were alive now I'm sure he would have a lot to say about him being accused of being forced to review anything. And furthermore if he had any favourites (which clearly didn't include any B&O models) it would have been based purely on a speaker's sonic and technical abilities, nothing else. And what'dya know, Yamaha NS-1000s and Spendor BC!s are universally loved by studios and hifi buffs all around the world to this day. That's not a coincidence, they're simply great speakers.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 9:51 pm   #47
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

Scroll to the bottom of this page for more on the dirty world of 70s hi-fi reviewing. AM allegedly fiddled the results.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Wharfedale.htm
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 12:45 am   #48
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Default Re: Hifi separates - how 'separate' do you go?

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The first B&O machine with a tangential, linear-tracking arm was the Beogram 4000.
David
I used to sell hifi (and televisions etc) in Windows in Newcastle as a Saturday job at age 16 (so 1972).

The piece de resistance to sell the parallel tracking B&O deck was to play a record and then thump the deck hard with my fist. The servos in the deck just did their stuff and continued playing the record, unlike just about any other deck on the market which would start the stylus skittering across the record if you so much as looked at them wrong.
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