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Old 27th Oct 2017, 12:46 pm   #1
Kyle1974
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Default Help needed with bits!

Hi all

I have just bought a 746 GPO phone, sold as the dial didnít function properly.

I have fixed this and tested the phone and everything seems to work well...

However! Upon reassembling the phone, I have two bits that didnít seem to go anywhere - do I need them? What do they do?

I have tried finding any manuals or diagrams but havenít been able to discover anything.

Many thanks in advance if anyone can help me!
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Old 27th Oct 2017, 3:24 pm   #2
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Looks like the bracket that the dial mounting is clamped to - see picture.

The nut looks like that which goes on the inside end of the case fixing screw (lower centre rear of the case). There should be a spring between the fixing screw head and the case. The nut goes inside the case to stop the screw falling out when the case is opened. If you are not aware and the screw is screwed right out of the case, this nut falls loose inside the telephone.

Ian
CNet 0352 2345
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Old 27th Oct 2017, 4:04 pm   #3
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Thank you so much!

So the hook bit is on the dial side and I am missing one small screw to link the two? Sorry for vagueness, I’ve never had one of these open.

Kyle
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Old 27th Oct 2017, 10:22 pm   #4
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

The hook part is permanent fixed to the cross piece (best seen in second photo). Then the dial support/clip around the dial is clamped to it by the screw on the bit that projects out from the clip to end up beside the 'U' in the hook. To work on the dial, just slacken off that screw and lift the top of the dial assembly upwards and lift it out. The slacken the screw which tightens the clamp around the dial and lift clamp and dial cover off to get access to the dial. The 'U' part isn't normally removed to get access to the dial.

Ian
CNet 0352 2345
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 7:46 am   #5
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Thank you again!

I have found a similar screw, tightenened it - and it works!

I have discovered that it kills my broadband for some reason when I plug it in though! Oh well...
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 10:02 am   #6
mike_newcomb
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Hi Kyle,
try another Broadband Filter.
All phone jack sockets should have filters fitted even if unused.
Any (open) sockets, especially those pointing upwards should be cleared of any dust/fluff.
Regards - Mike
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 12:02 pm   #7
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Thanks Mike, I will give that a go. I hope that will fix it as I love having a rotary phone again!
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 12:20 pm   #8
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_newcomb View Post
All phone jack sockets should have filters fitted even if unused.
Really? Why?
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 9:41 pm   #9
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_newcomb View Post
Hi Kyle,
try another Broadband Filter.
All phone jack sockets should have filters fitted even if unused.
Any (open) sockets, especially those pointing upwards should be cleared of any dust/fluff.
Regards - Mike
Not quite a correct statement I've no filters on my line because the filter is built into the main 'master socket' and any phone extension sockets are separate from the computer wiring from that point - hence no 'plug in filters' are needed.
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Old 28th Oct 2017, 9:48 pm   #10
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Me too.

I gave up on plug in filters years ago.
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 3:31 am   #11
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Although I would prefer a faceplate filter, I would first have to fit an NTE3 backbox - which I am perfectly capable of doing (and even have both backbox and faceplate) - but I try to be a good boy and not tamper with the master socket wiring! I therefore have the next best thing, with a plug-in filter in the master socket and anything else (i.e. a PABX and one direct 'phone) plugged into that.
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 4:28 am   #12
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

I had one like that too, with the whole house wiring already filtered and a 1.8μF ringing capacitor on the "clean" side for the full REN of 4. This took the form of a replacememt faceplate for the existing NTE5 master socket, with the filtering components and RJ-11 and RJ-431 sockets; plus a row of Krone terminals carrying the filtered voice, ringing and common return and also the unfiltered line to allow an extension cable to be run to an RJ-11 socket for the modem / router.

When I got FTTC (Fibre To The Cabinet, a.k.a VDSL -- Very short, Digital Subscriber Line; the length of cable carrying voice and data combined, which is the most susceptible to interference which is the factor having the greatest limiting effect on data rate, is very short) they replaced my modified NTE5 with a new NTE5D; this is a three-tier affair, which already includes whole-house filtering and separate sets of Krone terminals for voice (on the front faceplate) and data (on the middle layer, which also has an RJ-11 connector for the VDSL modem / router) extension wiring. And two internal test sockets; one with filtered voice and ringing on the middle layer, and one with the unfiltered line on the back box.

It's perhaps unfortunate that the decision was taken historically to fit a single capacitor to separate the voice and ringing signals inside the Network Terminating Equipment and then requiring three-or-more core extension wiring or microfilters with a capacitor that only support an REN, rather than rely on a separate capacitor in each phone, requiring just two cores and allowing any microfilter to be used as a whole-house filter; but at that time, nobody ever envisaged trying to pass radio-frequency signals along copper wiring meant only for voice signals up to 4kHz. And it was very effective at its designed purpose of preventing other extensions from "tinkling" when dialling-out using Loop Disconnect (pulse) signalling.

When we get fibre to the premises, we won't be needing those filters anymore, and could return to pre-broadband voice wiring practices; but DTMF (tone) dialling is inherently tinkle-free anyway, since it does not create hefty current pulses by intertupting the line. But a whole house full of DECT phones needs only one comnection to the line anyway; and in any case we might end up with a VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Analogue Telephone Adaptor as part of the Subscribers' Premises Equipment acting as virtual Network Terrminating Equipment for a locally-emulated exchange line, and send voice calls directly over the Internet as SIP traffic. Or we might have all SIP phones throughout the home, and a PABX in the SPE. Or SIP clients in out mobile phones, able to route calls via the Internet wherever a suitable connection was available -- possibly even switching from SIP to GSM to DECT as seamlessly as switching from WiFi to cellular data

It's telephony, Jim, but not as we know it .....
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 8:05 am   #13
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

By the way, I've just spotted my typo: "NTE3" should, of course, have read "NTE5".
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 11:59 am   #14
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Hi,

re: 'All phone jack sockets should have filters fitted even if unused'

Personally I to could not see the point, but ISP's advised this, and Routers generally were supplied with a couple of Filters.

Thus if there is a problem, it is worth trying.

Also this recommendation came out before the Sockets that had a 'internal' Filter, thus such Sockets are following the recommendation.

Regards - Mike
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 1:01 pm   #15
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Thanks all, I don’t understand some of the terminology but am learning rapidly!

My master phone socket has two two bits on it, one for the phone and one for the Router, so is it still worth trying the phone filter on the phone bit of the socket?

Kyle
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 1:29 pm   #16
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

It sounds like you have a splitter face plate. A picture would enable us to confirm this.

If you have a splitter faceplate you don't need filters, as the filter is in the master jack (NTE).
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 1:40 pm   #17
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

It’s a bit inaccessible to get a pic, but I’m sure the faceplate is split as described.

Is there any other way to use the rotary phone without it killing my broadband? Or is it a case of keeping it as a spare in case of power cut etc?

Thanks
Kyle
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 1:42 pm   #18
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

When you say it kills your broadband, does it do this when on-hook?
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 2:39 pm   #19
Kyle1974
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
When you say it kills your broadband, does it do this when on-hook?
Hi Graham

Yes, it does. Not even slowing it somewhat, just totally killing it.
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Old 29th Oct 2017, 2:55 pm   #20
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Default Re: Help needed with bits!

I would suggest that you have a problem with the phone's internal wiring/conversion then.

With the phone on-hook, all that should be connected to the line is the bell and that's in series with the capacitor in the master jack, so there's no DC path.
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