UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:52 pm   #21
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Would the "fishy" connection have anything to do with Tufnol, I wonder?
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 1:36 am   #22
Trifocaltrev
Hexode
 
Trifocaltrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lancing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 284
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi
Elephanthide was the normal material used on Hornby 3 rail O Gauge Track. I have taken both the 3 rail electric and 2 rail clockwork track apart and had it replated and then assembled the 3 rail track with new Elephanthode strips.

This has been very successful and the insulation held up at 240v when running my Hornby High Voltage Metropolitan Locomotive with its resistance controller and 60w light bulb!!!

Trevor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	High Voltage Metropolitain Locomotibve.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	156821   Click image for larger version

Name:	The_Hornby_Electric_Train_(MM_1925-12).jpg
Views:	159
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	156822  
Trifocaltrev is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:07 am   #23
frankmcvey
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cottesmore, East Midlands, UK.
Posts: 858
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

This paper? Elephanthide
frankmcvey is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 9:51 am   #24
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trifocaltrev View Post
This has been very successful and the insulation held up at 240v when running my Hornby High Voltage Metropolitan Locomotive with its resistance controller and 60w light bulb!!!
A 240v electric train I'll bet that one way or another it could certainly give you a thrill. And I thought that my Lumophon radio with the full anode voltage on an exposed terminal at the back was bad enough.

So Elephanthide paper looks like another possibility. I'll give it a try, thanks.
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:34 am   #25
Trifocaltrev
Hexode
 
Trifocaltrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lancing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 284
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
This is the product I meant.

Regards Trevor.

http://www.ukinsulations.co.uk/flexi...on/elephantide

Last edited by Trifocaltrev; 6th Feb 2018 at 10:43 am. Reason: Spelling Mistake
Trifocaltrev is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:36 am   #26
ex seismic
Heptode
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tonbridge, Kent, UK.
Posts: 685
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Elephanthide was the original material used for Landrover seats. On that basis any old vinyl or rexine seat cover material would do the job.

Gordon
ex seismic is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:40 am   #27
Trifocaltrev
Hexode
 
Trifocaltrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lancing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 284
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
Elephanthide insulation is an impregnated paper material, and plastic was not around in the 1920s and 30s when Hornby produced this track.

For originality, the insulation should be of the paper/thin card type.

Regards
Trevor.
Trifocaltrev is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 11:56 am   #28
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

For originality it needs to be a bit more than 0.5mm thick which I assume was 0.02" at the time. A lot of this stuff looks too thin although it's difficult to tell when thickness is specified in g/m2
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 12:19 pm   #29
Trifocaltrev
Hexode
 
Trifocaltrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lancing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 284
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Electrical Strength Unit In Air In Oil
0.127mm ±10% kV/mm 14 74 - 78
0.18mm ± 10% kV/mm 14.5 70 - 88
0.25mm ±10% kV/mm 13.5 68 - 77
0.30mm 10% kV/mm 12 60 - 74
0.40mm ± 10% kV/mm 10.5 52 - 63
0.50mm ±10% kV/mm 10.5 50 - 53
0.80mm* ±10% kV/mm / /
1.00mm* ±10% kV/mm / /

Looking at the data sheet for Elephanthide 4, it comes in the above thickness ranges, if you mic it up with a metric micrometer you should be able to get the nearest thickness to the original.

Regards
Trevor.
Trifocaltrev is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 12:41 pm   #30
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trifocaltrev View Post
Looking at the data sheet for Elephanthide 4, it comes in the above thickness ranges,
Thanks Trevor, I missed that bit. I saw the heading "electrical strength" and didn't look at the details. The original is 0.53mm +/- a bit, so I assume 0.5mm will do nicely
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:00 pm   #31
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

I rather like the wording of the Meccano Mag ad for the high voltage train [#22]: "The latest Hornby thrill"!
emeritus is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:07 pm   #32
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
I rather like the wording of the Meccano Mag ad for the high voltage train [#22]: "The latest Hornby thrill"!
Comfortingly the article assures us that there are "no difficulties or dangers" despite it apparently being plugged into a light socket by means of adapter 2.
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:31 pm   #33
Trifocaltrev
Hexode
 
Trifocaltrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lancing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 284
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
The locomotive works at 90v to 110v the dropping being obtained by the controller and the 60w lamp. I tend to use a fireglow bulb as it looks good.

If the locomotive is removed from the track then the full 240v is present so care is needed!

When used with track that had got oily insulation from over oiled clockwork locomotives being run on it, smoke was rising from the insulation when at 240v.

Last edited by Trifocaltrev; 6th Feb 2018 at 2:40 pm.
Trifocaltrev is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2018, 12:51 am   #34
mark_in_manc
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,872
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Off-topic regarding insulators, but on-topic regarding cleaning complex-shaped light-gauge rusty steel work in electrical installations: looking at your picture in post #16, I'd suggest having a go at electrolytic rust removal:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?p=983016

It won't damage what you have, and it'll be a lot easier to clean up than attempting to do it by abrasion. Don't do it with any alloy, or anything painted where you hope to save the paint.

If you use a galv anode, you'll lightly zinc-plate the work piece - not sure if you'll get enough on to make it less inclined to rust! Probably best done outside wrt fumes, splashes etc.
mark_in_manc is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2018, 9:45 am   #35
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_in_manc View Post
I'd suggest having a go at electrolytic rust removal:
That's more or less what I do although I use sodium carbonate. NaOH as a way of getting rid of paint at the same time is an interesting variation though. I'll have to look into that.
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:59 am   #36
Radio1950
Hexode
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Buderim, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 428
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Sorry, but I think you mean Sodium Hydroxide, Caustic Soda, NaOH.
Make sure you rinse it off well.
Caution when mixing with water; do it slowly, dribble the soda into the water.
Wear some form of safety glasses.
Caution if the water is hot, the mix can spatter or erupt violently.

This is often a main ingredient of dish washing detergent, and, in this manner, can be good for cleaning aluminium components, even tuning capacitors.

Our USA friends sometimes call this material Lye.

Use dilute Sodium Carbonate NaCo3 on its own (Washing Soda in AUS), for electrolytic cleaning, not NaOH.
One tablespoon per litre water is OK.

Use the caustic soda bath before the electrolytic cleaning for best and most efficient results.
Use with caution on aluminium, zinc, magnesium, stainless steel, and ventilate the processes.


Good luck, mike

Last edited by Radio1950; 7th Feb 2018 at 11:09 am.
Radio1950 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2018, 9:01 pm   #37
mark_in_manc
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,872
Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

I'll have to try washing soda - all my electrolytic cleaning has been with NaOH - caustic. On-line sources suggest the latter is more aggressive than the former - even with the latter, I still cook things for 24 hours or so. The simultaneous paint removal aspect can be quite useful.
mark_in_manc is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:18 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.