Gould J3B

[Philips210]

Hello again.

I acquired one of these signal generators a long time back and have been meaning to take a look inside to assess its condition. So I decided to give it a quick check.
The outward appearance is reasonable but there's a dent in one side which has also distorted the adjacent chassis side plate so that will need straightening up.

I notice the chassis has a yellow coloured passivated finish and I'm a little concerned about the presence of small white spots on the surface signifying corrosion. I wondered if the passivated finish could be cadmium rather than zinc? Does anyone know either way? I suppose assume it's cadmium and proceed with caution.
If it is cadmium plating that's corroding, what's the best way to approach it?

Also, any advice or experience on this signal generator would be a great help. It's generally well built but access is not brilliant. Are there any common things to look out for on the J3B?
Does anyone have a good quality copy of the service information, the copy I have is extremely poor? Thanks.

I'll post some pics in due course.

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

I've taken a few pics of the unit, please see attached.

I decided to carefully wipe plenty of WD40 over the corrosion to minimise the dust Compare pic4 with pic 5, the latter is less powdery.

I was thinking of completely stripping down the unit and painting the chassis side plates and screening box. I won't be disturbing the surface too much for obvious reasons.
I'll probably use an oil-based enamel paint to seal the surface. Does that sound reasonable?

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

Looks like no one on here owns one or can give any help.
I'm not sure that I will proceed any further so may put it back together and put it aside.

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

I was going to say this particular signal generator is branded as Gould but I think some are actually by Advance. I think Gould absorbed Advance but don't know for sure.
There was also a model J3. Does anyone know what differences there are between the J3 and J3B versions?

Regards,
Symon

[WME_bill]

Symon,
We aren't ignoring you. The usual copy on the web is from Mauritron. If you get near the original posting it is reasonable.
However, I have scanned my original copy for you. The parts layout and circuit are A3 size. The circuit suffers from the usual Advance trouble of showing no component values and very fine lines.
Painting. I have used Japlac or similar enamel paint. You seem to have found this also. The cellulose based ones (Hammerite) have an agressive solvent, which may take off your old paint. Oil paints now are a waterbased emulsion, which doesn't seem to stick well to metal.
I am always very chary of WD40. It creeps and is difficult to remove later.
I use a mixture of white spirit with some vaseline. Someone here once kindly called it Bill's Mixture. The suggestion came from a Marconi or Tek manual years ago. Fine for cleaning switches, contacts and polishing up panels.
Let us know how you get on.
wme_bill

[dazzlevision]

Originally Posted by Philips210

I was going to say this particular signal generator is branded as Gould but I think some are actually by Advance. I think Gould absorbed Advance but don't know for sure.
There was also a model J3. Does anyone know what differences there are between the J3 and J3B versions?

Regards,
Symon

Advance Components Ltd was founded in the 1930’s, in his garden shed, by Mr A W Stapleton (he was Chairman of the company in 1964). In 1964, the company name changed to Advance Electronics Ltd.

Advance Electronics Ltd was taken over by Gould Inc (USA), in 1975.
Gould were big in car/lorry batteries and copper foil. Gould divested itself of most overseas operations during the 1980’s and was itself taken over by Nippon Mining of Japan (in 2004, known as Japan Energy Corporation).
Gould Instruments was sold to Therma Spectra Ltd (in 2004, known as Thermo Electron), which also owned Nicolet Instruments.
The Gould and Nicolet operations were merged to form Gould Nicolet Instruments Ltd (in the UK).
In 2003, Gould Nicolet had moved out of Roebuck Road, Hainault, to another location at Loughton, Essex.
In Novemmber 2003, Gould Nicolet was sold by its parent to another US conglomerate SPX Corporation and is now known as LDS Nicolet (LDS stands for Ling Dynamic Systems – see Pye Ling for company ancestry).
In 2004, the former Gould ‘scope operations were relocated to the LDS site at Heath Works, Baldock Road, Royston, Herts.
The CVT business was bought from Gould by its management in 1983. It is privately owned and is based in Wrexham – Advance Electronics Ltd (who also owned Galartrek International until 2002 – Galatrek are a manufacturer of uninterruptible power supplies).

Things may well have changed since then, of course.

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by WME_bill

Symon,
We aren't ignoring you. The usual copy on the web is from Mauritron. If you get near the original posting it is reasonable.
However, I have scanned my original copy for you. The parts layout and circuit are A3 size. The circuit suffers from the usual Advance trouble of showing no component values and very fine lines.
Painting. I have used Japlac or similar enamel paint. You seem to have found this also. The cellulose based ones (Hammerite) have an agressive solvent, which may take off your old paint. Oil paints now are a waterbased emulsion, which doesn't seem to stick well to metal.
I am always very chary of WD40. It creeps and is difficult to remove later.
I use a mixture of white spirit with some vaseline. Someone here once kindly called it Bill's Mixture. The suggestion came from a Marconi or Tek manual years ago. Fine for cleaning switches, contacts and polishing up panels.
Let us know how you get on.
wme_bill

Thanks again Bill, that's a very clear copy, much appreciated.

Regarding the painting, I was concerned about the corrosion on the passivated plated chassis plates / screening box. Do you think it would be alright to paint this passivated plated finish to seal any possible toxic dust from the chassis? I had planned on completely dismantling it to do a reasonable paint job.

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

Thanks dazzlevision, that's quite a comprehensive history of the company.

Advance gear seems to be fairly well engineered. My only other piece of Advance equipment is a TC4 counter/timer with Nixie tubes which I brought back from the dead. Originally, it looked as it had been stored out in the open with a great deal of the Iskra made resistors having severely corroded leads. Infact I reckon that around 50 or 60 components needed replacing due to corrosion. Luckily the mains transformer survived the damp as did the chassis/case but needed considerable work to get in working order. Maybe I should dig out some old pics and start a new thread on it if anyone's interested.

Regards,
Symon

[dazzlevision]

In the end, the Gould instruments division were concentrating on digital storage 'scopes (the true Gould ones were all developed in their Roebuck Road, Hainault location - before it ceased design and manufacturing and closed down).
I can still recall their easy to remember phone number 01 500 1000!

My employer(s) in the 1980s and 90s bought several different models. That's why I have a good knowledge of the transformations the company went through until its eventual demise.

Here's an advertising leaflet from the time Gould bought Advance:

http://bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkow...ance%20Cat.pdf

[WME_bill]

Gould Advance.
Your latest posting: Advance Instruments in UK and Gould in USA both launched separately almost the first digital storage scopes around 1978. Then Gould took over Advance to combine efforts and meet competition. Their model numbers overlapped at bit, which can be confusing. In early 1980's a scope called 4030 is Gould, while OS4040 is an Advance design. They later by 1985's dropped the OS prefix on digital scopes. Also Advance continued their range of voltmeters, analogue scopes and signal generators, and Gould continued their range of medical, data recording, printing instruments and logic analysers, all marketed as Gould Advance.

Thanks to Dazzlevision for the advertising leaflet. It still has my writing on it, attempting to date it. I had forgotten that I had posted it. I think perhaps it should have been dated early 1980's. Can anyone else help?
wme_bill

[Philips210]

Regarding the passivated finish to the chassis, which is a red/yellow/green colour, could the chassis actually be passivated zinc plated steel as opposed to passivated cadmium plated steel? Anyone know what Gould /Advance used?

Regards,
Symon

[dazzlevision]

Gould bought Advance Electronics in 1974-5 and soon rebranded the Advance products as Gould Advance, then just Gould.

I recall going to an electronics exhibition in Olympia/Earls Court in the mid-70s and the Gould Advance stall had the Gould name in smaller font than Advance. This gradually changed around.

So, I think the Gould name was dominant well before the 1980s.

Take a look at this 1978 advertisement: https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/ID...-02-IDX-15.pdf

[WME_bill]

Dazzlevision,
Thanks for the new and better information about when Gould took over. I was always a bit doubtful about some of those dates. If only these firms would put a date on their brochures. wme_bill

[dazzlevision]

Originally Posted by WME_bill

Dazzlevision,
If only these firms would put a date on their brochures. wme_bill

Quite. Gould Advance often neglected to date their user manuals as well, or it was in a coded form!

As an aside, after the Gould takeover, the "house style" of their range of test equipment changed from the old Advance aluminium, blue and white, to the new Gould "chestnut mushroom" colour (creamy light brown?).

[Philips210]

Does anyone know if would be safe to use say an enamel type clear varnish to go over the corroded areas on the passivated plating so they can be sealed?

Regards,
Symon

[Chris55000]

Morning Bill!

Thank you from me also for that much better manual!

Did anybody note that Gould also used three colours of silk screen printing on the PCB to indicate which model used particular components?

I believe there was a J3 and a J3A.as well but I've never seen either model yet, and I didn't know there was a front panel cover for these either –I've never seen one for sale with them!

Chris Williams

[Cruisin Marine]

That is identical to the Advance Instruments J3

[Philips210]

A few pics of the Hainault factory, probably mostly from the 1980s. http://retronic.ch/gb/content/7-factory

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by Cruisin Marine

That is identical to the Advance Instruments J3

Hi Cruisin Marine.

I stumbled on a genuine Advance J3 Instruction Manual and it is essentially the same as the Gould J3B. There are a number of differences however. The J3B has provision for connecting an external dc supply, the J3 doesn't. I haven't had a good chance to properly compare the circuits. I did notice surprisingly in the Components List, the dual air-spaced variable cap is not the same value for both models. I expect there will be other variations too.

I intend to scan the Advance J3 manual but found the previous owner has written all over the circuit diagram. Most of this is concerning modifications he carried out. I will redraw the original circuit to keep the manual original but will also include his modified circuit too.

Regards,
Symon

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by Chris55000

Did anybody note that Gould also used three colours of silk screen printing on the PCB to indicate which model used particular components?
Chris Williams

Hello Chris.

Yes, I noticed this on the main PCB which is designated J4. The oscillator panel only has just a white silk screen print.

I've decided to strip down the signal generator so that repairs to the chassis and back panel can be made. It will make it easier to clean everything once dismantled and I will then decide how to deal with the slight corrosion. While the PCBs are out, I can then check all the electrolytic caps for good ESR and also leakage current. It looks a daunting task to dismantle it but isn't too bad once you get into it. Making many sketches and taking plenty of pics is essential though.

I don't know if the Schaffner mains filter unit contains a Rifa made Class X cap. I would imagine it could be nasty if one should decide to blow what with being contained in a resin sealed can. It could be quite a loud bang causing other damage including to the person servicing it. .

Please see a few attached pics.

Regards,
Symon