C1 turntable

[JulianLuttrell]

Hi all,

I have just joined here, so first of all Hello Everybody!

Right from the off I have a question about an old turntable I have found in the loft. Can anybody shed any light on what exactly this is? It has the words “Greaves of Sheffield” stamped on the underside, and dates from the mid to late 1980s I believe.

Regards,

Julian

[paulsherwin]

I vaguely remember that Greaves were an old furniture maker who tried making high end record decks for a while. Presumably the turntables and arms were bought in from somebody.

[Ted Kendall]

It probably is a parts-bin creation - the arm looks vaguely Manticore-ish, for example, but there is a Goldring cartridge in there, which is not to be sneezed at, and an upmarket mat . Suck it and see - it may work very well...

[fetteler]

Have a look at this link, 3rd paragraph...
https://hifipig.com/timberworx/

Apparently for a while in the 80's Greaves made plinths for turntable manufacturers, Linn included, so my guess is that the plinth is Greaves but the mechanics are from someone else. If you have a look at the innards there may be further clues. It looks like a very nice turntable to me, well worth a service clean up. I 'spect it'll sound lovely.

Steve.

PS I forgot to say, the platter looks very Rega Planar to me...

[Chiltern]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

It probably is a parts-bin creation - the arm looks vaguely Manticore-ish, for example, but there is a Goldring cartridge in there, which is not to be sneezed at, and an upmarket mat . Suck it and see - it may work very well...

+1 for Manticore, model M1 pictured, Julian's deck perhaps a later version.

Alan

[JulianLuttrell]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone!

The arm is a Logic Datum II.

I agree it looks Planar-ish, and Manticore pic is very close.

I shall look more closely at its insides and see if anything more comes out.

Julian

PS - and it works! Just got to get some clean vinyl to try out.

[ajgriff]

This might well be an Input Designs Ltd or a Manticore Audio Visual product. Both companies were founded by Doug Hewett in the early 1980s and operated from premises in Biggleswade, Beds before folding in the late 1990s. Doug Hewett seems to have been something of a fan of Rega and Linn turntable designs. In 1986 the basic Manticore Mantra without arm cost £235 whereas the Linn Sondek LP12 was £449. By contrast the Rega Planar 3 with arm cost only £188.

Greaves of Sheffield started out making good quality cutlery canteens but branched out into other cabinet making activities, including making bespoke plinths for turntable manufacturers like Linn, as the Sheffield steel industry declined. Greaves went into liquidation in the late 1980s so a date of mid-eighties is about right for this deck. There was another company called Greaves in Sheffield founded in the 19th century to make cutlery and there may have been a family connection.

It would be interesting to see a photo of the underside of the turntable. It will probably be belt driven and might be a suspended chassis design. One way or another it will almost certainly have the potential to be a really good performer.

Alan

[JulianLuttrell]

Looking more closely the turntable has the date 4 June 1987 stamped on it.

I have googled a bit more, and think this _may_ be a Logic C1, but there's very little information around about this model. Maybe this model appeared as Logic were getting into difficulties?

Julian

[ajgriff]

The following is a quote from Vinyl Engine's website:

"Logic also marketed the Datum tonearm, originally manufactured by Syrinx, with the later Datum II and Datum S being manufactured in house. The design was later used as a basis for the Manticore Magician and Musician tonearms."

This suggests some kind of link between Warwick based Logic and Manticore.

Alan

[Radio Wrangler]

Syrinx was Scott Strachan, a rather decent chap who got paralysed due to a fall from his horse, so that probably dates when the change of manufacturer occurred.

David

[ajgriff]

It would if we knew when the poor fellow fell off his horse.

I gather that Manticore bought the arm design rights from Logic at some point around the time of Logic Audio's demise.

Alan

[ajgriff]

Originally Posted by JulianLuttrell

Looking more closely the turntable has the date 4 June 1987 stamped on it.

I have googled a bit more, and think this _may_ be a Logic C1, but there's very little information around about this model. Maybe this model appeared as Logic were getting into difficulties?

Julian

Yes I found a single reference to that possibility as well. Intriguing little mystery. I wonder if you'll find any other clues along the way? A photo of the underside would be good if you get a chance.

Alan

[JulianLuttrell]

Photos attached

One is of the underside, one from above with the turntable removed.

It's a solid, not suspended, structure.

Regards,

Julian

[audiomagpie]

Originally Posted by ajgriff

This suggests some kind of link between Warwick based Logic and Manticore.

Logic at Leamington then Warwick were certainly gone well before 1987. I was doing repairs for a Logic dealer in the 80's, I reckon they ceased about '83? Certainly remember Manticore being involved with the Datum tonearm thereafter and continuing to market the Logic Tempo turntable for a while.

I'm currently restoring an early Logic DM101....

[ajgriff]

Originally Posted by audiomagpie

Logic at Leamington then Warwick were certainly gone well before 1987. I was doing repairs for a Logic dealer in the 80's, I reckon they ceased about '83? Certainly remember Manticore being involved with the Datum tonearm thereafter and continuing to market the Logic Tempo turntable for a while.

So that would suggest that this C1 turntable has some sort of direct connection with Manticore rather than Logic.

Alan

[ajgriff]

I think the attached collection of press cuttings, courtesy of Vinyl Engine, might help to complete the picture regarding the relationship between Logic and Manticore.

Alan

[audiomagpie]

Interesting! That certainly fills a few gaps in the puzzle...

Must have been a difficult time for turntable manufacturers with CD players becoming more affordable at the time - a bit like launching gas guzzling cars during an oil crisis.

[Radio Wrangler]

That motor looks to be hard mounted to the plinth, which isn't a good Idea.

I had an original Acos Rega turntable, back when Rega was just a model name and the platter had three cylindrical weights sticking out on bars. It too had a solid plinth, clad in a satin black laminate. On the whole it looked better than this C1 turntable, the motor was suspended from rubber O rings, the mains wiring was in channels under the laminate and the mains switch was a bit posher. The lid was similar and it had the rather decent 'Lustre' arm.

I expect the C1 will work about as well as my old Acos, except maybe for conducted motor noise.

David

[ajgriff]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

That motor looks to be hard mounted to the plinth, which isn't a good idea.

I wonder if it is actually rigidly mounted? Looking at the top view the white area around the motor spindle could be some sort of elasticated support. I'm thinking of something like the neoprene web used by Sugden in the BD1/2. Hard to tell.

It certainly looks like something designed to compete with the Regas which were much less expensive than either Logic or Manticore branded turntables of the time.

Bad time to be a maker of record decks as highlighted by Greg.

Alan

[fetteler]

Tell you what though, purely aesthetic and after seeing the underside - that's a nice piece of wood! Far too good to be hidden under black paint... I'd take everything off the plinth, strip the paint, sand the wood and finish with some Danish oil. That would look superb.

Steve.