Which lube to use?

[thomash93]

I'm planning on cleaning and re-lubing the tone arm sled/rail mechanism on my SL-3, but I'm having trouble getting my head around which cleaner and lube I should use.

I was thinking of using surgical spirit on a cotton bud to clean off the old lube, would this be fine?

As for the lube, I've read a lot of suggestions for Teflon/PTFE dry lube but not entirely sure if I need a specific type.

Would either of these be suitable?

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/produ...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/finish-line-...a-304066957368

Many thanks for any help

surgical spirit on a cotton bud

Meths is cheaper and has no added oil.
As for lube, the bicycle ones are very good and properly tested by people that really use them.

[Bazz4CQJ]

Interesting that when you go to the RS link which you included that you are also offered the Ambersil and Rocol PTFE spray products, but these are somewhat more expensive (the latter £23 for 400ml). Having bought other Rocol products in the past, I'm sure that they do make excellent stuff, so I wonder about the others which are so much cheaper, though I have never tried them, so cannot comment on how well they perform.

So, I'd also like to hear how others may have found PTFE "dry lube" products?

B

[Silicon]

I suggest you use Isopropyl Alcohol for cleaning.

GT85 is a low friction lubricant. I use it for bicycle gear cables.

Some of the 'Dry' lubricants have a consistency like a soft wax when the solvent has evaporated.
They resist being flung off rotating parts. I would not use it on a tone arm.

[stevehertz]

Whenever I use lube anywhere near plastic or rubber parts, and particularly for hifi applications I use light silicone lubes that contain no petroleum products. There's many different brands available in spray cans and for precision use I spray some into the lid and apply using a short length of copper wire to the exact points where it's needed. Like I say, it does not attack plastics or rubber and also works great as a light lube. For example I use it on the nylon tuning cord roller wheels on hifi receivers and tuners.

[wd40addict]

Despite my avatar I have successfully used GT85 on CD player mechanisms. It's good at cleaning off the old sticky grease, and leaves a PTFE coating behind. The players are still working fine after a couple of years.

BTW the WD40 company bought GT85!

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell

Meths is cheaper and has no added oil.
As for lube, the bicycle ones are very good and properly tested by people that really use them.

I'd steer clear of meths. Once the solvents have evaporated, the blue dye remains. For cleaning use Iso Propyl.

Bike lubricants are far too thick for fine mechanism use (I know - I have a bike)

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Whenever I use lube anywhere near plastic or rubber parts, and particularly for hifi applications I use light silicone lubes

Silicones are extremely persistent. Once on, you can never get it off - there are no known solvents. If you get it on your fingers, everything you touch gets a coating - including spectacles and contact lenses. The only way it comes off your fingers is when the skin sheds.

They were banned as a lubricant for aerospace mechanism applications ten years ago because of their tendency to creep. The only way to remove it from a mechanism is by plasma etching the surface (not a piece of equipment available for hobby use!)

For fine mechanism lubrication I use either sewing machine oil (confusingly called Water White Oil), or watch oil (Moebius is the standard brand http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils ). Both these are cleanable with iso-propyl.

Craig

[stevehertz]

But we're talking amateur use here Craig, none of those strict aerospace regulations apply in your own home. I've never, not once experienced a problem using silicone based products, but I am aware of the horror they cause in the eyes of some, how difficult it is to remove them etc. Just apply it carefully using a thin wire 'spill', no excess, and even if it does creep a bit (I've never had a problem in that respect, not a single episode of the issues you mention), then not a problem in practice. I've been using it for many years. On the other hand I've seen at first hand the effect of petroleum based products on plastics, rubber and paint finishes. I'm a confirmed silicone lube user, we will have to agree to disagree!

[Craig Sawyers]

Still don't like 'em. Mineral based lubes are prefectly good, wash off your hands with soap and water, and if they get gummed with lint or dust can be taken off, 100%, with common solvents.

Last place I worked, the small assembly team had a fixation with silicones. It got all over the shop - floor, benches - and worst of all on the optics (it was an optical based pollution monitor). They also had a Loctite fixation, so nothing could be disassembled. I did a raid on the drawers and tossed the lot into the outdoor skip. Got the correct sort of mineral grease, two torque wrenches and specified the correct lockwasher type and torque for every single fixing. Result? More reliable product that could actually be taken apart for repair or servicing.

Against those positives, why use silicone grease and oil?

And yes - I was involved in space instrumentation for quite a number of years. And silicone migration was the cause of at least one orbiting scientific instrument degrading when the optics got a thin coat of silicone which absorbed UV (forget which). Hence its progressive ban by the various space agencies.

One of the things I positively detest about heat sink compound is that most of them use a silicone base.

[stevehertz]

Craig, now I know what your Avatar pic represents. The one on the left is yourself smiling re mineral oil based products, and the one on the right is re silicon!

[Craig Sawyers]

Not a bad interpretation

[Mark_RR]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Once on, you can never get it off - there are no known solvents.

This is not true. There is plenty of information on suitable solvents on the web. I found this after a minimal search

https://www.pfonline.com/articles/silicone-oil-removal

Basically, use aromatic hydrocarbons.

[Craig Sawyers]

Well, good luck using "Most aromatic (ring structure) solvents are effective at dissolving silicone oil. These include toluene, xylene and naphtha" on anything to do with plastics.

Other recipes from various sources:

"5% aqueous hydrofluoric acid"

"saturated solution of sodium hydroxide in ethanol"

"the best way would be to sand it off"

"use a cloth wet with turpentine and sprinkle with powdered heavy laundry detergent"

"The best way to remove silicon grease is to remove the bulk of it with methalene chloride followed by a soaking for about 20-30 minutes in a base bath"

Good luck with any of those once you have got it in the bowels of some equipement.

Like I said - the only sure way of getting the stuff off is plasma etching.

So - use easily available, and cheap, mineral (or synthetic non-silicone) grease or oil, and know for sure that there is an easy way of cleaning it off.

[stevehertz]

The bottom line is, if you put lube in a place where it's needed, you don't need to ever get it off, this removal business is simply not an issue. If you apply too much and it creeps (never, ever had that problem personally) that's your own fault for applying too much. For light, localised lubing, a tiny droplet accurately applied from the end of short length of wire or pointed awl is the perfect solution and unlike some other lubes it will not swell or soften rubber or plastic components and will not damage often delicate paint finishes the likes of which you get on hifi and modern radios and TVs. I can well understand that for space, aero and other applications there are valid reasons not to use silicon lubes. Horses for courses.

[emeritus]

When a light lubricant is needed, I use clock oil, which I think is a vegetable oil and does not dry out. There is also watch oil that is even lighter, but I don't have any of that. I got mine some years ago from what was probably the last shop in London that dealt in clock and watch spares, so it's probably a case of getting it on line now. It wasn't cheap, a 1 oz bottle cost nearly a fiver some 20 years ago, but then it was made in Switzerland and you never need to use much.

[ajgriff]

Very much agree with Craig's comments regarding silicones. In a domestic setting I still have an early LCD TV with manual operating buttons which only work intermittently. This was caused by general purpose spray polish containing silicones. The offending sprayer refused to heed my pleas not to use the stuff on electronic equipment. Aside from creep and the difficulty associated with removal, certain formulations of silicone create an electrically resistive barrier. Despite trying every trick in the book I've never managed to completely clean these switch contacts. However, the remote still works so the set acts as a useful spare.

First came across this issue in a corporate environment when PCs were first installed on every desk. For a while nobody could explain the high rate of keyboard and switch failures until it was discovered that the office cleaning staff were using silicone based aerosols. Subsequently all cleaning contracts were written with clauses banning the use of cleansing agents containing silicones.

Alan

[julie_m]

Isn't there a possible "end of the Universe" scenario in which a perfectly even, thin layer of silicone is covering every object in existence, and it's no longer possible to rub the stuff off onto anything because it would be rubbing on from the other object at the same rate as you were rubbing it off?

[emeritus]

When I wanted to buy some silicone furniture polish a couple of years ago, I couldn't find any on sale anywhere, either spray or solid. They all proudly proclaimed they were Silicone-free. I used to use the solid stuff to lubricate the runners of our plastic curtain rails and wanted some to treat the surface of my fluorescent lamps to ensure reliable starting. I found that cheap supermarket spray polish was 100% effective on the fluorescent tubes (and CFL lamps).

[Station X]

Originally Posted by emeritus

I used to use the solid stuff to lubricate the runners of our plastic curtain rails

Rubbing a (white) candle along the runners is good for that, but we'd better stay on topic.