Advice on what players to look for. - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

ajgriff · 23rd Jul 2019, 11:53 pm

If you can Keith it would be best to take your time over this. If something like the Dynatron range appeals try searching the usual websites for 'music centres' which should narrow down the field a bit. Look for items which are within striking distance of home and ask to view what's on offer before making a commitment. Consider other brands too and a suitable unit will turn up. By the way, I share your concern about missing control knobs and the like. They can be very difficult to replace with something that matches.

Alan

Kentode · 24th Jul 2019, 10:01 am

I have a Ferguson 398 RG (Radiogram) which was intended for an impatient customer who backed out.

The deck has been overhauled and 26 resistors and capacitors have been replaced and two new output valves put in.

It even comes with a set of period legs and a brand new stereo compatible cartridge!

PM me if interested Keith , I'm not far away.

Radio Wrangler · 24th Jul 2019, 11:48 am

Specific recommendations probably won't be very helpful, because the business of acquiting a player hinges on what turns up when you start looking around. General advice on what to avoid and what to take interest in, might help more...

1) AVOID modern-made reproduction players (Steepletone, GPO, Crosley etc.) They are basically junk. They've been discussed to death on this group

2) Avoid Dansette players. They were cheap and cheerful players at the bottom end of the market back in the day (Though they did make a few better models). THe price meant that they were what most teenagers could afford back then. Those teenagers are now getting on a bit and feeling reminiscent. They want to recapture their teen years, and they reckon buying a dansette will do just that. So, it's a free market and the demand has pushed the prices of anything with a Dansette badge on it up to levels far beyond their real value. You might come across one of their better ones, you might even find it at a good price, but this is stretching your luck a bit. You'll probably get a better machine and for a lower price by looking at other makes.

Hacker has been mentioned. They were serious. They didn't mess around with junk. All they made was pretty worthwhile. It was expensive in the day, so there may not have been large numbers sold, but they were likely to have been appreciated and kept.

Most of the well known consumer brands of the period made record players. They made cheapies to fight at the bottom of the market, they made superior ones for those who could afford something better. The Bush players mentioned earlier were good mid-range machines. One of these in good order ought to satisfy what you're looking for

Dynatron got mentioned. Originally Dynatron was a brand created and run by the Hacker brothers and was very up-market. THey later sold the business to PYE who turned it into a brand of their more mundane innards stuffed into period reproduction cabinets. A bit Hyacinth Bucket, but reasonable stuff can be found with this badge and prices can be low. The hackers went back into the consumer electronics business at the high quality end and that's the Hacker mentioned above.

PYE Rather like Bush, did consumer electronics at various levels. BUT they did some special quality players in the early years... look up 'PYE Black Box' There's plenty of info on this group.

There were also special quality units made for schools by firms like C&S. These were very well designed and made.

With any period record player, you need to make sure it has had a stereo or stereo-compatible cartridge fitted. Playing stereo records with a mono cartridge will ruin them. And being limited to mono records is likely too limiting.

If I just wanted to play records and listen to the radio. I'd go looking for Japanese mini hifi separates from the 1980s. The turntable wouldn't do 78rpm records, though. There is a lot of gear from this era, prices are very low and the quality is significantly better than ordinary consumer-model players from the sixties.

David

crackle · 24th Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

Keith has expressed an interest in my RGD P83R so I have sent him a PM with as accurate description as I can, see text below.
If there are any other points I have missed please feel free to mention them here.

"The RGD P83R is essentially the same as the ITT-KB KP820, the RGD version is less common, but I see one sold on Ebay in June for £79, the ITT-KB ones normally go for much less. (they are more plentiful)
It would have been originally designed as a budget record player for a child's bedroom.
It is stereo and hence has a stereo cartridge so it will play any record, old and new, at all speeds and sizes up to 12 inch LP's.
However due to the unsophisticated design of the record deck, and being made to a budget, it would not be as kind to records as some of the HiFi transcription decks made from around this time with their magnetic cartridges tracking at only a couple of grams or less.
It comes with its own speakers which clip on to the base to form a lid for storage and carrying around. They are removed and placed about 4 to 8 feet apart from each other for true stereo listening.
Its main advantage is the relative small size and lightweight making it easier to carry and so also to post.
The built in amplifiers are 2 IC's, keeping the electronics as simple as they can get. But it does have bass and treble as well as the balance and volume controls, and enough volume for a child's bedroom.

The audio quality is not as good as something like the Dynatron with larger separate speakers that you were looking at, and this little RGD does not have the advantage of a built in radio for more entertainment.

I paid about £30 for this record player last year so I can let you have it for the same, plus postage.
I will give it a check over if you decide to take it.
By the way the photos in the Radio Museum, that I gave the link to, with the pale green background, are of the actual one we are talking about here."

Mike

PS, I will be supplying Keith with the stacking spindle from my ITT-KB KP820 to make this RGD player complete.

Keithcan · 24th Jul 2019, 7:31 pm

I have taken up Mike's very generous offer of the RGD P38R. I'm sure it will be an excellent set for Aaron (our grandson) to both listen to his records now and also possibly start him on the path to collecting vintage equipment.

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my request for advice. Lots of good info that both Aaron and I can use in any future searches for equipment.

Thanks again, Keith.

23rd Jul 2019, 11:53 pm	#21
ajgriff Nonode Join Date: May 2004 Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,587	Re: Advice on what players to look for. If you can Keith it would be best to take your time over this. If something like the Dynatron range appeals try searching the usual websites for 'music centres' which should narrow down the field a bit. Look for items which are within striking distance of home and ask to view what's on offer before making a commitment. Consider other brands too and a suitable unit will turn up. By the way, I share your concern about missing control knobs and the like. They can be very difficult to replace with something that matches. Alan

24th Jul 2019, 10:01 am	#22
Kentode Octode Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Yorkshire, England. Posts: 1,301	Re: Advice on what players to look for. I have a Ferguson 398 RG (Radiogram) which was intended for an impatient customer who backed out. The deck has been overhauled and 26 resistors and capacitors have been replaced and two new output valves put in. It even comes with a set of period legs and a brand new stereo compatible cartridge! PM me if interested Keith , I'm not far away. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Regards, Ken. BVWS member

24th Jul 2019, 11:48 am	#23
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,869	Re: Advice on what players to look for. Specific recommendations probably won't be very helpful, because the business of acquiting a player hinges on what turns up when you start looking around. General advice on what to avoid and what to take interest in, might help more... 1) AVOID modern-made reproduction players (Steepletone, GPO, Crosley etc.) They are basically junk. They've been discussed to death on this group 2) Avoid Dansette players. They were cheap and cheerful players at the bottom end of the market back in the day (Though they did make a few better models). THe price meant that they were what most teenagers could afford back then. Those teenagers are now getting on a bit and feeling reminiscent. They want to recapture their teen years, and they reckon buying a dansette will do just that. So, it's a free market and the demand has pushed the prices of anything with a Dansette badge on it up to levels far beyond their real value. You might come across one of their better ones, you might even find it at a good price, but this is stretching your luck a bit. You'll probably get a better machine and for a lower price by looking at other makes. Hacker has been mentioned. They were serious. They didn't mess around with junk. All they made was pretty worthwhile. It was expensive in the day, so there may not have been large numbers sold, but they were likely to have been appreciated and kept. Most of the well known consumer brands of the period made record players. They made cheapies to fight at the bottom of the market, they made superior ones for those who could afford something better. The Bush players mentioned earlier were good mid-range machines. One of these in good order ought to satisfy what you're looking for Dynatron got mentioned. Originally Dynatron was a brand created and run by the Hacker brothers and was very up-market. THey later sold the business to PYE who turned it into a brand of their more mundane innards stuffed into period reproduction cabinets. A bit Hyacinth Bucket, but reasonable stuff can be found with this badge and prices can be low. The hackers went back into the consumer electronics business at the high quality end and that's the Hacker mentioned above. PYE Rather like Bush, did consumer electronics at various levels. BUT they did some special quality players in the early years... look up 'PYE Black Box' There's plenty of info on this group. There were also special quality units made for schools by firms like C&S. These were very well designed and made. With any period record player, you need to make sure it has had a stereo or stereo-compatible cartridge fitted. Playing stereo records with a mono cartridge will ruin them. And being limited to mono records is likely too limiting. If I just wanted to play records and listen to the radio. I'd go looking for Japanese mini hifi separates from the 1980s. The turntable wouldn't do 78rpm records, though. There is a lot of gear from this era, prices are very low and the quality is significantly better than ordinary consumer-model players from the sixties. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

24th Jul 2019, 3:24 pm	#24
crackle Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,100	Re: Advice on what players to look for. Keith has expressed an interest in my RGD P83R so I have sent him a PM with as accurate description as I can, see text below. If there are any other points I have missed please feel free to mention them here. "The RGD P83R is essentially the same as the ITT-KB KP820, the RGD version is less common, but I see one sold on Ebay in June for £79, the ITT-KB ones normally go for much less. (they are more plentiful) It would have been originally designed as a budget record player for a child's bedroom. It is stereo and hence has a stereo cartridge so it will play any record, old and new, at all speeds and sizes up to 12 inch LP's. However due to the unsophisticated design of the record deck, and being made to a budget, it would not be as kind to records as some of the HiFi transcription decks made from around this time with their magnetic cartridges tracking at only a couple of grams or less. It comes with its own speakers which clip on to the base to form a lid for storage and carrying around. They are removed and placed about 4 to 8 feet apart from each other for true stereo listening. Its main advantage is the relative small size and lightweight making it easier to carry and so also to post. The built in amplifiers are 2 IC's, keeping the electronics as simple as they can get. But it does have bass and treble as well as the balance and volume controls, and enough volume for a child's bedroom. The audio quality is not as good as something like the Dynatron with larger separate speakers that you were looking at, and this little RGD does not have the advantage of a built in radio for more entertainment. I paid about £30 for this record player last year so I can let you have it for the same, plus postage. I will give it a check over if you decide to take it. By the way the photos in the Radio Museum, that I gave the link to, with the pale green background, are of the actual one we are talking about here." Mike PS, I will be supplying Keith with the stacking spindle from my ITT-KB KP820 to make this RGD player complete. Last edited by crackle; 24th Jul 2019 at 3:36 pm.

24th Jul 2019, 7:31 pm	#25
Keithcan Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Doncaster, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 16	Re: Advice on what players to look for. I have taken up Mike's very generous offer of the RGD P38R. I'm sure it will be an excellent set for Aaron (our grandson) to both listen to his records now and also possibly start him on the path to collecting vintage equipment. I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my request for advice. Lots of good info that both Aaron and I can use in any future searches for equipment. Thanks again, Keith.