25th Jan 2020, 2:45 pm | #1241 |
Octode
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
I'm pretty sure there are tweakers out there who'll remove your Zobel, for a fee! I recently had a client bring a power amp over, which he claimed had blown some tweeters. Within about 30 seconds of him bringing it in, I simply put a 10K square through it and looked on the scope. The amount of overshoot was quite something. I then noticed that the response started to rise if you swept beyond 20KHz. It was the same on both channels.... It transpires that the owner of said amp had paid someone £1,000 to modify it... I didn't have time to flip the lid and look at what had been done, but I think there's a fair chance of the Zobel being removed. It was oscillating at around 3MHz. Why settle for a flat response to 22KHz, when you can remove the Zobel and go to infinity and beyond! I'd imagine it had all manner of other stability mods removed as well - and they probably changed opamps from 5532 to video-grade!
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25th Jan 2020, 3:12 pm | #1242 | |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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*/ironic mode on/ perhaps I should have done /ironic mode off/ |
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25th Jan 2020, 4:38 pm | #1243 | |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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Even the mighty Krell got it wrong. I owned a KSA100 back in the day, which was 100W class A into 8 ohms. It heated the room nicely in the winter from its fan-cooled heat sink chimneys. However, although it had a Zobel across the speaker terminals there was no output inductor, so its stability was a bit marginal (it blew up twice, spectacularly - there were no fuses in the +/- supplies so the full juice of the power supply fuelled the fire). The Zobel was also underrated, the resistor was too low power, and because the RC pair was in a piece of shrink wrap, the resistor cooked the capacitor. Apart from those problems it sounded superb, with no crossover distortion. Craig |
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25th Jan 2020, 4:43 pm | #1244 | ||
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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Craig |
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25th Jan 2020, 4:57 pm | #1245 | |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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25th Jan 2020, 5:12 pm | #1246 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
They blow a hole in the Schaffner can.
David
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25th Jan 2020, 5:30 pm | #1247 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
Given it's Naim, nothing would surprise me! I once was inside a high-end CD player from that company. Or at least it had a high-end price tag. But it used the cheap plastic Philips CDM4 deck. And the normal Philips decoder chipset. The only thing was that Phlips said in their databooks that certain decoupling capacitors had to be SMD parts mounted under the DIL-packaged ICs for minimum track length (and thus inductance). On this machine, they were normal through-hole capacitors about 0.5-1cm from the IC. Maybe it makes no difference, but...
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25th Jan 2020, 7:02 pm | #1248 | |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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Anyhow, fast forward to his current position as chief engineer at NAIM. They let him off the leash the same way that I did at Wharfedale - and the Statement pre and power amps was the result. Now no, they do not publish THD plus noise figures. But I absolutely guarantee that Steve has completely characterised the amps under all possible operating conditions. If they had published them, would it make any difference to the purchase of a hundred-odd grand's piece of kit? I think not. But I again guarantee that if asked by a potential technically informed purchaser to produce the numbers, I'm sure they would do so. Craig |
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25th Jan 2020, 8:13 pm | #1249 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
A long time ago it became possible to design an amplifier to produce the required power into the requited load, with more bandwidth than anyone can hear and with trivial distortion.
The problem is that not every amplifier is designed this way. Not every one is competently designed. Rocket science isn't involved, you don't need special components stolen from a crashed flying saucer. Some amplifiers are disappointing. It's probably less important to know exact figures than it is to know that the designer is competent and that the bean counters kept their fingers out. As a result of the no-Zobel whoopsie, Naim was on my don't touch list. If they do such a thing and not see the downside, what else might they do? After Craig's comments, I'm warming to their later products, but I don't suppose I'm likely to ever see one at that sort of price. David
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25th Jan 2020, 8:24 pm | #1250 | ||
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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25th Jan 2020, 8:44 pm | #1251 | |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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They, like all the very few remaining UK owned companies, are surprisingly small, with a turnover of less than £30m and around 150 staff. At least Cambridge Audio, after many decades of woe and umpteen insolvencies, is still owned in the UK, by Richer Sounds. Craig |
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25th Jan 2020, 8:51 pm | #1252 | |||
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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Let's put it this way. If I were to win the Euromillions, I would by Steve Sell's Statement system in a heartbeat. Not for status, not for slavish belief, not for any audiophool reasons, but because I know that Steve has done an exemplary job of excellence of engineering. Craig |
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25th Jan 2020, 9:02 pm | #1253 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
I can still hear no fault in my little TDA whatsit stereo chip amplifier, the chip has specifications, output (20W or so) and distortion (less than 0.1%) that will do me!
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25th Jan 2020, 9:11 pm | #1254 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
You can do very well with chip amplifiers. Here is one overall design that is exceptionally well specified and exemplary performance
https://neurochrome.com/products/modulus-686 |
25th Jan 2020, 10:37 pm | #1255 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
I do like the "neutrodyne" alignment of the Zobel inductors, not that it would make any real difference. At least someone thought about it and it is a zero cost "improvement". My simple attempt only uses just one of those 15 pin jobs, the transformer cost more than the chip! The recommended Zobel for it is merrily a resistor and capacitor (10ohms 0.1uF), no inductance.
Driving a pair of Tannoy (Chinese now, awfully good) DC4s sounds great, mind you I like radio plays and the stereo image is very clear (important for a play) probably due to the small size of the 'speakers surface area and the concentric nature of them. I would (and have) rather spend £300 on 'speakers and £30 on the amplifier/cables etc. than the other way round. |
25th Jan 2020, 10:45 pm | #1256 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
Oops, realised I sound like an audio pragmatist rather than a phool, apologies...
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25th Jan 2020, 10:49 pm | #1257 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
The Modulus 686 looks really good but is probably a touch too powerful for most people's needs. I do think that so called 'chipamps' or 'gainclones' combined with a decent Linkwitz-Riley crossover make an excellent basis for an active system especially for DIY builders. No audiophoolery necessary.
Alan |
26th Jan 2020, 2:20 pm | #1258 |
Octode
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
It's not often that Cambridge and Naim get mentioned in the same paragraph. One markets mains cables costing £500+ The other is owned by someone who's made it his life's work to give people bang for their buck, culminating in hiring patron-saint-of-objectivists, Douglas Self.
A problem that Naim might have, were they to publish figures for this £150K+ amp, is that they would be fighting the laws of physics to better the paper spec of the Benchmark AHB2 amp. The AHB2 (at under a fiftieth of the N's cost) can deliver full power at better THD+N than most analysers can measure. This would reduce Naim into having to justify the product exclusively in terms that cannot be quantified. But wait, they do that anyway! 'Plus ca change' as the French (owners of Naim -) might say, |
26th Jan 2020, 3:16 pm | #1259 |
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
There are a few ways of getting vanishingly small harmonic and intermodulation distortion.
The first is to use a mixture of feedback and feedforward. There was a superb series of articles in Linear Audio on that topology and the performance you can get. It uses a lot of active devices (30+) as compared with a Self Blameless (12), and needs someone with their electronic wits about them to get it right and not build an oscillator. The Benchmark product uses that topology, and achieves the expected exemplary performance of 3ppm over the audio band. The low weight suggests that they are using a switched mode supply, which is perfectly OK. Another, now alas defunct one that used the same arragement was the Halcro. That went the additional step of two switched mode supplies. A power factor corrected one, feeding a second one to produce several regulated rails. That produced far less than 1ppm (Typically 0.2ppm) distortion over the audio band up to full power, and I think is the first (or only) high power amplifier to pull that stunt. Finally there is the latest generation of class D. A good example of what is possible is the Hypex NC400 https://www.diyclassd.com/product/nc400/11 . A few ppm distortion across the audio band. Craig |
26th Jan 2020, 3:20 pm | #1260 | |||
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Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.
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