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Old 2nd Jul 2006, 3:34 pm   #1
David_Robinson
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Default Your best preserved '405' aerial

It amazes me that after more than 20 years without transmissions, there are still quite a few Band 1 / Band 3 aerials on rooftops. I have attached a couple of examples from my local area, the first is on the Conservative Club at West Bridgford, Nottingham and the second is a house also in the same town. I guess the Band 3 aerials are now picking up a reasonable DAB signal although the current DAB frequencies are higher than those used for 405. The Band 1 aerials are relatively small, being for channel 4.

Can you do better? I would particularly like to see some of the giant channel 1 aerials (3 metre long elements). I also wonder what was used for Band 3 only areas such as Belmont (Lincolnshire) on channels 7 and 13. Did people use wideband arrays or 2 separate ones?

No cheating though - don't dig out the old family albums! I'm looking for recent pictures.
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Old 2nd Jul 2006, 9:58 pm   #2
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

I guess they are there because nobody can be bothered to take them down. They probably arent being used for anything, though they would do a reasonable job of DAB on band 3 if they were pointing the right way. I noticed one of those useless halo FM band 2 aerials (the only type of arial to have a negative forward gain) in the second photo too.
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Old 2nd Jul 2006, 10:22 pm   #3
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hello!

Here in St Albans there are still quite a few channel 1 and channel 9 aerials. The Band III ones are generally speaking pretty small as reception here was pretty easy and the band I ones are the single dipole type, again easy reception. The only exeption to this as far as I have seen is when I've been driving to work in Harrow, on the way is Bushey, and the reception problems there must have been great as the size of the stacked band III aerials is incredible. There is an array on a restaurant at Bushey arches but it suffered in the wind recently. Next time I get the opportunity I'll take a picture. I know the problems at UHF there are large as well but that's probably for a different thread!

Tas
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Old 3rd Jul 2006, 1:30 am   #4
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

There is a large Band I aerial overlooking the seaside resort of Llangranog. The beach there is quite small but gets very packed in the summer with tourists.

On the south end of the beach there is a hill with a winding road. Overlooking the beach, in full view of all the sun worshipers, on a mast of about 10-15ft high, is a rather sad looking aerial pointing up the coast to the Blaen Plwyf transmitter which was on Ch3. The coax has been cut and is blowing about in the wind, otherwise looks like its just sitting there patiently for transmissions to restart.........!

Now there's an idea!
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Old 3rd Jul 2006, 8:53 am   #5
ppppenguin
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Like David Robinson, I too am astonished at how many Band I/III aerials survive, more than 20 years after they have outlived their usefulness. On a very rough and ready basis I have found they work fairly well as Band II radio aerials. I know they are miles away from the correct size but they are much better than some silly bit of wire behind the set. The outer of the co-ax also make a plausible MW aerial. Certainly worked well enough with crystal sets when I was a kid.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 12:07 am   #6
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Robinson
It amazes me that after more than 20 years without transmissions, there are still quite a few Band 1 / Band 3 aerials on rooftops. I have attached a couple of examples from my local area, the first is on the Conservative Club at West Bridgford, Nottingham and the second is a house also in the same town. I guess the Band 3 aerials are now picking up a reasonable DAB signal although the current DAB frequencies are higher than those used for 405. The Band 1 aerials are relatively small, being for channel 4.

Can you do better? I would particularly like to see some of the giant channel 1 aerials (3 metre long elements). I also wonder what was used for Band 3 only areas such as Belmont (Lincolnshire) on channels 7 and 13. Did people use wideband arrays or 2 separate ones?

No cheating though - don't dig out the old family albums! I'm looking for recent pictures.

Most of the surviving 405 line aerials were probably put up in the swinging 1960's or the early 1970's at the very latest. After that the take up of the new UHF 625 line service was very rapid.
Some of those old unused vhf bands 1/band 3 aerials could date back to the 1960's or even as far as the mid to late 1950's.
Around the Bristol area there are still a few Wenvoe/St Hilary ch 5 and ch10 aerials dotted around mostly in more sheltered locations. I have also seen those old band1/3 aerials in Street near the Clarks village. There are also a few to be seen just up the road in Wells.
I have heard of old band 1 aerials being cut to size for FM radio aerials and have also heard that the old band 3 tv aerials can make excellant DAB radio earials, especially those for the higher channels such as 10-13.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 12:08 pm   #7
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

There are two chimneys (about a hundred yards from each other) in Cockermouth which each sport a Band I and Band III aerial (both horizontal).

I keep meaning to take photographs of them. When I do, and I have had the film developed (non-digital I'm afraid), I'll scan them and post them here.
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 12:51 pm   #8
Kat Manton
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hi,

Cobweb and myself have just got back from a bus trip to the other side of Leeds and back. We sat on the top deck and did a bit of aerial spotting.

I spotted:

A perfectly-preserved Band I 'X', a couple of Band I dipoles with the bottom element missing and one complete one, and a sorry-looking Band III, possibly 4-element but partially hidden behind a chimney. To round things off, just a few houses up from me I spotted the remains of a Band I 'X' with all the elements missing.

So, there's a few left around here. I'll try to get some pics; I have a digital camera with a decent zoom on it.

Regards, Kat
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 1:09 pm   #9
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Okay, no photos yet but, these are the ones that I spotted, in addition to Kat's finds:

Spotted on the way into Leeds were:

At least 2 or 3 Band I dipoles, 1 possibly complete, the others missing one or other of their elements; one Band I 'H', leaning at a sorry angle; and a Band III of at least 4 elements, also leaning.

On the way back:

A Band III on top of one of the buildings right in the centre of town - not sure how big as it was a fleeting glimpse; and right from our own street, a Band I 'X' in very sorry state with only one element remaining, although it is still well-positioned.

You know people talk about the "nutter on the bus"? I guess today that me and Kat were that nutter(s), wittering about ancient aerials and craning through the windows to spot any specimens

Cobweb (general nutter, on buses or otherwise)
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 1:16 pm   #10
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

There are some superb bits of aerial photography on Wright's Aerials site:

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/index.html

Some rather nice band I and III stuff on this page:

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ancient.htm

Not much band I/III on the rogues gallery page but well worth a look.
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Old 14th Jul 2006, 8:39 am   #11
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hello,
What a relief! Its great to know that I am not the only nutter to take photo's of obsolete chimmney scrap metal.....
I live in West Sussex around 35 miles from the old Alexandra palace transmitter. There are a lot of well heeled homes around here that were early owners of television receivers. I have posted a few pictures here and when I get the chance to take the shots will post a few more. There are many 'box' arrays still in good condition and a superb 3 element band 1 array, all lonesome on the roof of a mansion at Pulborough. A 'fishbone' band 3 array exists at Salfords near Guildford and just along the road, an 'H' together with a box 10 band 3....I will see what I can do.
Pictures show: 'ANTEX' on roof of shop in Dorking High Street complete with balanced feeder. Array above the KINGS HEAD Dorking. Well preserved 'Box 12' and large band 1 array, Station Road Dorking. 'ANTEX' on roof of bungalow, Mill lane Littlehampton. [ROWRIDGE] Finally a superb 'H' array at Salfords that vanished a few days after taking this picture.Regards, John.
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Old 14th Jul 2006, 4:49 pm   #12
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Wonderful stuff indeed! I remember somewhere around Perth in 2002 they were loads still in situ, both horizontally and vertically polarised presumably allowing for the choice of Scottish or Grampian TV. So many I thought they had a preservation order on them! Wish I had the camera.

To the next enquiry: this site only allows photos upto 200KB, but images from my camera are on average 280KB. Anyone got any ideas how to overcome this problem?

Cheers from Brian
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Old 14th Jul 2006, 5:30 pm   #13
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus Diode
To the next enquiry: this site only allows photos upto 200KB, but images from my camera are on average 280KB. Anyone got any ideas how to overcome this problem?
If you use XP, get the free "Powertoy" image resizer... http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...powertoys.mspx

All you do is right click and select resize.

See this thread: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ghlight=resize

Post any queries there so that this thread doesn't go off-topic!

Nick.
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Old 15th Jul 2006, 1:08 am   #14
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

When my parents went UHF, I took down the very old Band 1 aerial, cleaned it up and cut down the elements to give me a simple dipole for 4 metre amateur band. It worked very well and I guess they could be cut down to a particular frequency in the FM Band but not sure about the bandwidth as this would be a far greater requirement compared to 4 metres.
A good source probably is a local friendly aerial rigger if you ask him nicely to look out for one and acquire it for you.
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Old 16th Jul 2006, 12:06 pm   #15
Focus Diode
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Here are two examples I took yesterday in Western Gateshead, in a valley location.
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Old 16th Jul 2006, 5:03 pm   #16
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

It's funny how (at least to me) these lovely long Band I 'H's now seem so redolent of another way of life, a gentler Britain of the past.

However when they were new, they could be considered ugly and new-fangled and spoiling the look of a house. My father for example, refused to have a proper 'H' on our chimney. Instead it had to be a loft aerial. Fortunately, in Sevenoaks the signal from AP was still enough to satisfy our Pye (looking at Jon's site this probably was an FV4CDL).

Steve
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Old 16th Jul 2006, 7:59 pm   #17
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus Diode
Here are two examples I took yesterday in Western Gateshead, in a valley location.
I noticed a lot of these old Aerials while I was up at Uni in Durham but there seem to be very few here in Norfolk. I guess it is a question of the relative wealth of the areas in the 19505/60s. I think there was a neat looking one in Norwich, so I will look out for it next time I am up the city!

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Old 16th Jul 2006, 8:50 pm   #18
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

There used to be a lot in the parts of Essex we used to live in, namely Colchester, Witham, Faulkbourne and Chelmsford, but we left that part of the country 10 years ago and I never thought to get one then - silly really!
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Old 18th Jul 2006, 8:52 pm   #19
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hi All

This Band III array pointing at Midhurst is on a house in Wonersh about 200 yards from my home. It still looks in excellent condition. The UHF aerial is pointing at the Guildford repeater.

Ron
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Old 18th Jul 2006, 10:34 pm   #20
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

I have an "H" aerial in my loft which was in the house
{Built 1968} when I bought it.
If I remember I will have a look at it and measure it.
It is fitted on a small tube support but is horizontal otherwise it
wouldnt fit in the loft. It is rather big and I tried it once on FM but it
was'nt too good.
If it isnt the type of aerial thats mentioned on here ,What else could
it have been for??
I remember in the 60s we couldnt afford a proper aerial so we used
the budgies bird cage Stand Lovely picture !.
Peter W Reelguy
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