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Old 29th Apr 2021, 2:46 pm   #1
G4XWDJim
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Default Selling advice High Volts PSU

20 years ago I built a large general purpose PSU, LT, HT 250v and 450v to run my military receivers and transmitters that I used to use on the vmars AM net.

It worked very well but I haven't used it for 15 years. so thought I'd sell it but the thought occurred to me what if the buyer didn't know what he was doing and took a firm grip of the 450 volt output or even the mains. If he was injured or worse where would that leave me even if it was properly built with earthing fuses, metering and protection in a solid case. Would I be considered a manufacturer and have different rules applied

Maybe it would be better taking off the mains lead and selling it as a non worker or even removing the HV transformers and selling it for a rebuild. Do different rules apply if giving it away free of charge.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated please.

Jim
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 2:56 pm   #2
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

You would, presumably, be selling with no warranty given or implied and at the buyers own risk therefore absolving yourself legally. Morally is another issue of course but if you sold it to someone (say) on here then you could be pretty well assured they would know what they were doing.

If it's any help I may be interested myself - and further details of ratings etc?
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 4:48 pm   #3
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Quote:
Maybe it would be better taking off the mains lead and selling it as a non worker
I think it is illegal to do otherwise.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 4:52 pm   #4
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

That's about the size of it in my opinion; either sell it to a 'sensible' on here or advertise it as 'for parts or restoration' in the latter instance take the plug off for good measure

Dave

Last edited by Cobaltblue; 29th Apr 2021 at 5:32 pm. Reason: Automotive removed
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 4:52 pm   #5
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Not illegal but to protect ones arse...
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 5:04 pm   #6
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

I think it is actually illegal. There are special rules about selling second hand electrical equipment.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 6:12 pm   #7
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

I understand that there may be rules for non-current, say CE approved equipment (that in itself is a farce, cos many/most the Chinese imports seem to just print a CE mark on their stuff), but, does anyone have a link to information on selling on home-made or second hand equipment for us all to peruse, so that we at least know where we stand in this mad world we live in now.
Thanks

Last edited by Cruisin Marine; 29th Apr 2021 at 6:21 pm.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 6:39 pm   #8
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Sell as Spares or Repairs? In other words , for parts to cover yourself.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 6:46 pm   #9
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

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Originally Posted by GMB View Post
I think it is actually illegal. There are special rules about selling second hand electrical equipment.
For businesses yes, not for private individuals.

To the OP: Just sell it as it is. Anyone can injure themselves on anything, regardless of the voltage or even if it's electrical or not.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 6:51 pm   #10
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

For businesses yes, not for private individuals.

To the OP: Just sell it as it is. Anyone can injure themselves on anything, regardless of the voltage or even if it's electrical or not.


But, remember we live in a world of litigation, the "No win, no fee culture" imported from the USA. There are many folks would jump on a claim if they thought it would line their pockets- sadly. So I guess everyone will have to ensure they get a written acceptance of the terms of sale
As I said, it is a mad, mad world we live in now, and at times a very unjust one.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 6:56 pm   #11
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

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Originally Posted by Sinewave View Post
To the OP: Just sell it as it is. Anyone can injure themselves on anything, regardless of the voltage or even if it's electrical or not.

Too true. Around 11,000 people a year injure themselves while putting on socks. Electrocution by home made power supplies doesn't even register in the statistics.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 7:28 pm   #12
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

As you built it when you were using vintage transmitters on VMARS nets, you could put it in a VMARS auction, a buyer there should know how to handle the PSU.

John
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 10:02 pm   #13
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinewave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB View Post
I think it is actually illegal. There are special rules about selling second hand electrical equipment.
For businesses yes, not for private individuals ...
Do you have a written reference for that ?

My understanding is that no-one, business or private, can sell electrical equipment which isn't safe. There is no formal definition of 'safe' as such. It comes down, in the end, to the judgement of a court. But certificated compliance with the 'harmonised standards' would be a strong defence against a claim that you'd sold an unsafe item.

A quick Google turns up this RoSPA page

https://www.rospa.com/home-safety/ad...ond-hand-goods

which asserts that

There is clear guidance out there that sellers should comply with, including ... the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994.

Earlier they have discussed buying both from business sellers and from "car boot sales and auction websites". Both of the latter channels have many private sellers.

I've also heard that if you're going to sell an item which you believe is not safe then the onus is on you, as the seller, to convince yourself that there is no realistic prospect that the buyer might use it in that unsafe condition. One way of doing that would be to sell it to a recognised repairer, or to a scrap dealer. Just cutting the plug off when it's clear the buyer could put another one on would be laughed out of court (except there's nothing very funny about courts).

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 10:15 pm   #14
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

A simple principle:

1) Just imagine the worst that could happen
2) Once it's happened, wouldn't you just love to have a time machine to nip back and prevent yourself getting dragged into all the trouble.
3) Recognise that you just happen to be right at the exact time you would want to nip back to, and that as time machines don't seem to exist, you'll never get the chance again.
4) So now you know what to do and why you need to do it..... Do It!


David
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 10:26 pm   #15
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Then how can anyone on here, sell or pass on any old Valve TV or radio missing a back, an open chassis or faulty in anyway including untested?. They all can have lethal voltages and points accessible and were all probably made before 1994.

Trying to quickly read the regulations is hard work, it keeps referencing other sections that you have to understand first.

Adrian
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 10:26 pm   #16
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

I understand the caution being expressed here, but on these lines it seems to me that no-one would get to buy early an TV with mains EHT (for example), as the safest thing for the estwhile seller to do would be to crush it. That seems a shame, to me. Perhaps a sale on this forum or similar might assuage your fears that someone might hurt themselves through ignorance or foolishness. I'll not express an interest, and you'll be even safer
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 10:44 pm   #17
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_in_manc View Post
the safest thing for the estwhile seller to do would be to crush it. That seems a shame, to me.
Or, they could presumably just not sell it or crush it, but give it away to someone who wants it. That wouldn't be caught by legislation, would it (however unsafe it was)?

Mike

Last edited by Boulevardier; 29th Apr 2021 at 11:00 pm.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 11:27 pm   #18
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

I'm not sure that would get you off the hook either, Mike. Laws are carefully phrased with weasel words so they can be interpreted in various ways.

Now, Mark's mentioned early TVs with mains EHT. Now those things are dangerous and very valuable. Very valuable means they get into high falutin' auctions at big posh auction houses. Now those places are probably very careful to guard themselves, and they're up to the wazoo in lawyers, so how do they cover themselves?

David
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 11:29 pm   #19
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Question Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Surely a simple written disclaimer would cover the seller from possible liabilities?
Such as sending the prospective buyer a simple message - e.g. an e-mail - stating that:

"This item uses and generates very high voltages which can harm you or even kill you. If you buy this item from me, you accept full and singular responsibility for what you do with it and all and any consequences thus arising".

Plus a copy of that message attached to the item when the seller finally parts company with it.

Al. / Apr. 30.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 6:54 am   #20
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Default Re: Selling advice High Volts PSU

Sell it as a box of parts, dismantled? The real value is in the transformers, and likely if you sold it to the right sort of person who could use it safely, he'd take it apart and re-work it to suit his needs/preferences anyway.

David
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