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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 9:07 pm   #1
kirstyd
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Default Ferguson 401 radiogram

I saved this from certain death today .Apart from the missing turntable it appears to be unmolested .The person i got it from told me they had plugged it in and it came to life for a few seconds but then tripped the electrics .this was caused by a dead short in the taped up joint in the mains lead .I removed the add on bit of flex refitted the plug and switched on .after a few second the thing came to life .the radio is not working but there is a healthy buzz from the pick up leads when switched to gram. I would like to keep this gram mainly for playing 78s [ i do have a deck that will drop straight in] so what i want to know is their anyone in the Leeds area who would take a look at the amp and the tuner for me [while i am quite at home fiddling with a box record player this thing is a bit beyond me ]
regards K
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 9:11 pm   #2
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Default Re: ferguson 401 radiogram

some more photos
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 9:31 pm   #3
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: ferguson 401 radiogram

I can service this for you Gary on my next trip to Leeds, probably in a few weeks time, but it needs a lot of work. It looks like one valve has gone to air.
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Old 23rd Apr 2021, 7:24 pm   #4
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Default Re: ferguson 401 radiogram

Hi, it looks eminently restorable BUT, do not power up again, then via a lamp limiter as there are quite a few cheap parts that are failing and you do not want to kill anything expensive.
The transformer exuding wax does not look good, but treated with care may be OK

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Old 23rd Apr 2021, 7:38 pm   #5
kirstyd
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Default Re: ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maurice View Post
I can service this for you Gary on my next trip to Leeds, probably in a few weeks time, but it needs a lot of work. It looks like one valve has gone to air.
Thanks for the offer Michael .The valves are just very dirty .The camera flash makes them look white. I have tried the two EL84s in something else and they both work
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Old 23rd Apr 2021, 7:41 pm   #6
kirstyd
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Default Re: ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Dinning View Post
Hi, it looks eminently restorable BUT, do not power up again, then via a lamp limiter as there are quite a few cheap parts that are failing and you do not want to kill anything expensive.
The transformer exuding wax does not look good, but treated with care may be OK

Ed
HI Ed .I only powered it up for a few seconds and only because the person i got it from had already done the deed [i wont do it again]
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 1:18 pm   #7
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Hi all
decided to have a go at this myself starting with the amplifier .I am part way through replacing the caps [doing one at a time and testing in between] Its now working much better and the transformer is not getting hot just slightly warm .I have a good healthy buzz when on gram and signs of life on all wavebands [nothing much on short] There is a constant hum caused by the three in one smoothing can 32.24.24 uf at 450 volts .I have temporarily put a new 33uf across the 32 and the hum stops .What i want to know is can i replace both 24ufs with 22s or would it be better to replace all three with 33uf. According to the service sheet the 32uf is the HT reservoir the two 24ufs are HT smoothing .
cheers K
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 1:54 pm   #8
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirstyd View Post
Hi all
decided to have a go at this myself

replace all three with 33uf. According to the service sheet the 32uf is the HT reservoir the two 24ufs are HT smoothing .
cheers K
The right decision.

And you should be fine with the capacitors - it's the reservoir that's important. See if you can get a proper all in one replacement and make sure the reservoir has a 'ripple' rating, particularly if you have to source single components.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 3:55 pm   #9
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

The original record deck in this was a Garrard RC75A (or very similar) but I would suggest you not to replace like for like unless the one you source is 100% working OK. These are very difficult to fix. I would add a Garrard "Autoslim" or one from this 1960 Garrard series. You may need to ease the existing motor board cut out to suit, but there should be plenty of leeway. This Radiogram has an excellent specification and is above the average for this period.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 8:09 pm   #10
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

thanks guys for the prompt reply's. As for the record deck i am going to fit a Collaro that i saved from another trashed [younger]Ferguson gram .Being a nice cream colour it will look right at home
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 8:15 pm   #11
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

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Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
The original record deck in this was a Garrard RC75A (or very similar) but I would suggest you not to replace like for like unless the one you source is 100% working OK. These are very difficult to fix. I would add a Garrard "Autoslim" or one from this 1960 Garrard series. You may need to ease the existing motor board cut out to suit, but there should be plenty of leeway. This Radiogram has an excellent specification and is above the average for this period.
Hi Edward .yes i thought it was above average when i saw the separate amplifier in the bottom .It does sound rather nice and that's with the speaker arrangement out of the cabinet . I think it will certainly make my stash of 78s sound nice
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 8:55 pm   #12
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirstyd View Post
Hi all
decided to have a go at this myself

replace all three with 33uf. According to the service sheet the 32uf is the HT reservoir the two 24ufs are HT smoothing .
cheers K
The right decision.

And you should be fine with the capacitors - it's the reservoir that's important. See if you can get a proper all in one replacement and make sure the reservoir has a 'ripple' rating, particularly if you have to source single components.
Hi Techman. It seems that three in one cans are no longer available looks like I will have to go with three separate caps. Do you think three of these would be OK? I could put them inside the old can.
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Old 1st May 2021, 8:51 am   #13
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

I think you'll find the ripple rating is far too low. I would use one of these and a separate 33uF capacitor for the third one, you could use the one pictured provided it is the furthest away (electrically) from the rectifier valve.

PS if the rectifier is an EZ80/81 you can go up to 50uF in which case try ask jan for triple capacitors.
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Old 1st May 2021, 10:57 am   #14
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirstyd View Post
thanks guys for the prompt replies. As for the record deck I am going to fit a Collaro that i saved from another trashed [younger] Ferguson gram. Being a nice cream colour it will look right at home.
Yes, Fergusons of this period did use Collaro autochangers. Contemporaneous with yours would be the Collaro RC54 3 speed.
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Old 1st May 2021, 11:44 am   #15
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Hi Michael.

I had thought of fitting one of those dual cans and then hiding the third one underneath somewhere. Which one would you use the separate cap for, one of the 24uF's or the 32uF? This may sound like a silly question but when you say [furthest away from the rectifier] do you mean in the circuit or its position on the chassis.

Regard, K.
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Old 1st May 2021, 11:46 am   #16
kirstyd
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maurice View Post
I think you'll find the ripple rating is far too low. I would use one of these and a separate 33uF capacitor for the third one, you could use the one pictured provided it is the furthest away (electrically) from the rectifier valve.


PS if the rectifier is and EZ80/81 you can go upto 50uF in which case try ask jan for triple capacitors.
sorry Michael please disregard my last question .I didn't read your post correctly
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Old 1st May 2021, 12:00 pm   #17
kirstyd
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirstyd View Post
thanks guys for the prompt replies. As for the record deck I am going to fit a Collaro that i saved from another trashed [younger] Ferguson gram. Being a nice cream colour it will look right at home.
Yes, Fergusons of this period did use Collaro autochangers. Contemporaneous with yours would be the Collaro RC54 3 speed.
Hi Edward .The one i have is a Collaro Challenger
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Old 1st May 2021, 3:31 pm   #18
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

just been checking a few resistors and up to now i have found 4 that are quite a way off what they should be .One in particular a 4.7 meg is open circuit .On the service sheet it says all resistors are 1/4 watt unless stated otherwise .now i have lots of 1/4 watt resistors but they are so small .Do you think they will be ok or should i go for something a bit beefier ?
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Old 1st May 2021, 4:32 pm   #19
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

A general rule of thumb for the ripple current rating for a reservoir capacitor (the one connected directly to the cathode) is that it should be at least twice the DC load current.

The maximum reservoir capacitance given in the GZ32 valve data is 60uF providing the total series resistance is a minimum of 150 Ohms:

http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/gz32.pdf

Lawrence.
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Old 1st May 2021, 4:34 pm   #20
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Default Re: Ferguson 401 radiogram

The problem with modern 1/4 watt resistors is that they are intended for use with low voltages. If you can find a resistor with a suitable voltage rating that would be ideal, otherwise one of about the same physical size as the original should be fine and will look less out of place.
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