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Old 6th Mar 2021, 12:41 am   #1
PaulS69
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Default GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Hi! We have recently bought an old working (converted) 706 for a ornamental piece in a new hall way. We have the main BT point (data and phone) in the lounge where we have a BT cordless base station connected and also a 70s Trim phone (another working ornamental piece) connected by a 3 way adapter. So I bought an RTX wireless extension on eBay to connect the 706 in the hall which I have connected and appears to work. I have set up as per the instructions with the main phone line going into the base station (from the 3rd port on the 3 way adapter) and connected the 706 In the hallway with the accompanying RTX extension unit. The 706 has a dial tone and will take an incoming call but it will not ring. I know the phone will ring as I have tested it direct into the BT socket. Does anyone have any ideas re how to solve the issue? I read on another forum about the 706 needing the addition of a capacitor? Any help and/or advice would be great!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 8:16 am   #2
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

It may be that your wireless extension is not providing third-wire ringing, as expected by a "converted" 706. There are two simple solutions:
1) If you have a spare ADSL (broadband) plug-in filter, the UK ones include a ringing capacitor to provide the desired third-wire ringing. Plug this between the output of the wireless extension and the 706.
2) Failing this, you could "unconvert" the 706 by removing the blue wire from the terminal T5 in the 706 and parking it on an unused terminal such as T13 (assuming that green is parked on T14), then ensuring that T5, T6 and T7 are connected together and that T8 and T9 are connected to each other. The telephone will then use its own internal ringing capacitor.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 10:31 am   #3
PaulS69
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Thank you! I get all that I think Can the filters be bought easily on eBay?

Could it be a REN issue with the old bell equipment and not enough current?
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 1:05 pm   #4
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

I have used jacks equal to this http://salestores.com/dualjack.html
They do only use 2 wires, they do not accept rotary dials unless I used a converter. so I used dialgizmo. To get your phone ringing you need to convert the signal to 3 wire signal, or to use the original setup in your phone. whatever you plug in in that remote jack, the telco may not measure what you have plugged in. Try one telephone at the time in the wireless jack, it may power more than one phone depending on the phone. I will suggest to follow Daves idea no 2 to unconvert if you not has intentions to move the phones around, if you feel for changing phones a converter to UK system would be fine. Something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ11-Plug...-/262671846092

About your phone I like this page: https://www.britishtelephones.com/t706dismantle.htm

dsk
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 1:13 pm   #5
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Thank you! This is great information. What are your thoughts on the below. I also posted my issue on the BT Community forum and got the following response;

“TBH, I’m not familiar with whatever this RTX wireless extension is, is your 706 phone is plugged into this device rather than the physical line socket ? the 706 phone is old technology, designed to ‘ring’ in phase with the 90v AC ringing current sent from the exchange , if this phone isn’t physically wired to the landline , then it’s not likely to ‘ring’, it needs 90v AC to operate the electromagnetic coils that operate the ‘bells’ within the phone ( giving that retro sound )


A modern phone doesn’t necessarily ring in phase with the exchange ringing condition ( ring ring, pause, ring ring ) they simply detect the ringing voltage and do whatever the user has selected in the menu options to signal an incoming call ( some phones play music rather than ‘ringing’ much like a mobile phone ) , your 706 doesn’t detect the signal as such, it uses the the 90v AC , a wireless connection isn’t going to provide that voltage wirelessly”
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 1:25 pm   #6
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

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Originally Posted by PaulS69 View Post
Thank you! I get all that I think Can the filters be bought easily on eBay?
Yes, search "ADSL filter" and you will find plenty available for £2 to £3 if you didn't get any spare ones with your router.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS69 View Post
Could it be a REN issue with the old bell equipment and not enough current?
It could be an issue if there is a strap between T4 and T5 rather than a 3.3KΩ resistor. It is, however, more likely to be the absence of a separate ringing current.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 1:45 pm   #7
PaulS69
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagskarlsen View Post
I have used jacks equal to this http://salestores.com/dualjack.html
They do only use 2 wires, they do not accept rotary dials unless I used a converter. so I used dialgizmo. To get your phone ringing you need to convert the signal to 3 wire signal, or to use the original setup in your phone. whatever you plug in in that remote jack, the telco may not measure what you have plugged in. Try one telephone at the time in the wireless jack, it may power more than one phone depending on the phone. I will suggest to follow Daves idea no 2 to unconvert if you not has intentions to move the phones around, if you feel for changing phones a converter to UK system would be fine. Something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ11-Plug...-/262671846092

About your phone I like this page: https://www.britishtelephones.com/t706dismantle.htm

dsk
Great links! Thank you!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 2:04 pm   #8
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

So my mistake. The wireless extension has a 4 pin RJ11 socket in its base. It comes with a 4 pin RJ11 to 4 pin RJ45 female adapter for U.K. phone. I still though do not know if it has the ring capacitor in it
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 2:08 pm   #9
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

As Dave implies in #2/#6, ask friends and family if they've got a spare ADSL microfilter. These have been sent out with routers since the launch of ADSL and most people will have dozens of the things rattling around. They should generate a ring signal for a traditional UK phone.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 2:57 pm   #10
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Success! Thank you! I found an unused ADSL filter at the back of a drawer in my home office. I am grinning for ear to ear.

Thanks so much for the help everyone!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 2:57 pm   #11
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS69 View Post
It comes with a 4 pin RJ11 to 4 pin RJ45 female adapter for U.K. phone.
I assume you mean a BT-type 'phone socket (431A/631A) rather than RJ45 (which is the eight-contact connecter used for ethernet connections).

As you say, this may or may not contain a capacitor. If not, replacing it with the lead linked to by dagskarlsen would be the neatest solution, which is functionally equivalent to using the non-capacitor adaptor with an ADSL filter.

edit: I see that success was achieved while I was typing!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 3:06 pm   #12
PaulS69
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Smile Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
It may be that your wireless extension is not providing third-wire ringing, as expected by a "converted" 706. There are two simple solutions:
1) If you have a spare ADSL (broadband) plug-in filter, the UK ones include a ringing capacitor to provide the desired third-wire ringing. Plug this between the output of the wireless extension and the 706.
2) Failing this, you could "unconvert" the 706 by removing the blue wire from the terminal T5 in the 706 and parking it on an unused terminal such as T13 (assuming that green is parked on T14), then ensuring that T5, T6 and T7 are connected together and that T8 and T9 are connected to each other. The telephone will then use its own internal ringing capacitor.
Dave. Thank you so much. I found a spare ADSL filter. This worked!!
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 1:48 pm   #13
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Hi All

Something I noticed last night when demoing our 706 was that it will not dial out when connected to the wireless extension. It does ring and take incoming calls, so being a show piece it’s no biggy that it will not dial out. I am just interested to find out why as it will dial out when plugged directly into the BT hard wired socket coming into the house. Can anyone shed any light as to why this might be?
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 2:27 pm   #14
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

It may well be that the wireless system only supports DTMF dialling. After all, it would have to have specific circuitry within it to detect loop disconnect (LD) dialling at the telephone end and recreate it at the line end.
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 2:28 pm   #15
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Does your wireless extension support pulse dialing or only tone dialing?

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Old 4th Apr 2021, 8:59 pm   #16
PaulS69
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

This is the blurb I could find online;

SUPPORTED STANDARDInterface: 1.8 GHz DECT air interface using DECT authentication and encryption PSTN INTERFACE – EXTENSION UNITLine voltage: 3 intervals from base unit to extension unit- No line: <3V- Parallel telephone off hook: 3V < voltage < 18V- Idle line: > 25VRinger signal: 25Hz ringer signal on extension unitExtension unit ringer signal (square wave) with >=50VRMSPSTN INTERFACE – BASE UNITLine interface: European TBR 37/38 with DTMF and optional pulse dialing supported REN: < 0.1REN load from base on telephone lineCLI SUPPORTStandard: Bellcore 202, V.23 (EU)Signal modes:- FSK DT-AS reception and generation- FSK RP-AS reception and generation- DTMF reception and generation in extension unit without pol-reversalSignal content:- Calling line identity (EN 300 659-3)- Calling party name (EN 300 659-3)CONNECTORSBase station: Two RJ11 plugs on base for connection to PSTN line and plug through to other PSTN servicesExtension unit: One RJ11 plug for attachment to modem, fax or telephoneMECHANICSDimensions size: 75(W) x 60(D) x 95(H) mmWeight: <100gOperating temperature: 10° – 40°C (for indoor use only)LED signaling: MMI - 1 color (green)LED on base and 3 color (yellow, greenPOWERSPower supply: 230V +/- 10%Power consumption:- Idle mode: <1W.- Active mode: <3.1W.- Active mode ringing: <3.1W.APPROVALSSafety:- IEC 60695-2-11 (Glow Wire)- IEC 60950 (CE)DECT:- TBR 10- TBR 37- TBR 38- TBR 6- EN 300 444 – GAPEMC:- EN55022- IEC 61000-4 and 64000-3- IEC 1000-4 (over voltage and current)Environmental:- RoHS and WEEE.- IEC 60068More info:http://www.rtx.dk/Wireless_PHONEjack-2715.aspx
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 9:07 pm   #17
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
Does your wireless extension support pulse dialing or only tone dialing?

Cheers

Mike T
https://www.internetvoipphone.co.uk/...data-sheet.pdf

Here’s another spec sheet. These are no longer manufactured although they are plentiful online
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Old 4th Apr 2021, 10:20 pm   #18
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

It says:
"DTMF and optional pulse dialling supported"
but I have no idea what that means.

Does it mean pulse dialling is a configuration option, or you have to specify it when ordering? (It seems to be a plug & play affair with no user config)

Also, is it referring to the "jack" unit recognising dial pulses, or the "master" unit's ability to output dial pulses to the line? They are entirely separate processes, and in principle such a system could convert from tone to pulse or vice versa.

Couldn't you just run a cable into the hall? [DUCKS]
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 7:47 am   #19
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

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Unfortunately, that link gives me a "404 page not found" error.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 8:09 am   #20
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Default Re: GPO 706 not ringing when connected to RTX wireless extension

A user manual is available here. I see no further mention of this "optional pulse dialling supported".

By the way, I assume you do have the switch next to the socket on the extension unit set to "S" for speech, though I don't know whether this is likely to make any difference to support for LD dialling.
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