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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:52 pm   #21
Herald1360
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Would the "fishy" connection have anything to do with Tufnol, I wonder?
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 1:36 am   #22
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi
Elephanthide was the normal material used on Hornby 3 rail O Gauge Track. I have taken both the 3 rail electric and 2 rail clockwork track apart and had it replated and then assembled the 3 rail track with new Elephanthode strips.

This has been very successful and the insulation held up at 240v when running my Hornby High Voltage Metropolitan Locomotive with its resistance controller and 60w light bulb!!!

Trevor.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:07 am   #23
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

This paper? Elephanthide
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 9:51 am   #24
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Originally Posted by Trifocaltrev View Post
This has been very successful and the insulation held up at 240v when running my Hornby High Voltage Metropolitan Locomotive with its resistance controller and 60w light bulb!!!
A 240v electric train I'll bet that one way or another it could certainly give you a thrill. And I thought that my Lumophon radio with the full anode voltage on an exposed terminal at the back was bad enough.

So Elephanthide paper looks like another possibility. I'll give it a try, thanks.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:34 am   #25
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
This is the product I meant.

Regards Trevor.

http://www.ukinsulations.co.uk/flexi...on/elephantide

Last edited by Trifocaltrev; 6th Feb 2018 at 10:43 am. Reason: Spelling Mistake
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:36 am   #26
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Elephanthide was the original material used for Landrover seats. On that basis any old vinyl or rexine seat cover material would do the job.

Gordon
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:40 am   #27
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
Elephanthide insulation is an impregnated paper material, and plastic was not around in the 1920s and 30s when Hornby produced this track.

For originality, the insulation should be of the paper/thin card type.

Regards
Trevor.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 11:56 am   #28
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

For originality it needs to be a bit more than 0.5mm thick which I assume was 0.02" at the time. A lot of this stuff looks too thin although it's difficult to tell when thickness is specified in g/m2
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 12:19 pm   #29
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Electrical Strength Unit In Air In Oil
0.127mm 10% kV/mm 14 74 - 78
0.18mm 10% kV/mm 14.5 70 - 88
0.25mm 10% kV/mm 13.5 68 - 77
0.30mm 10% kV/mm 12 60 - 74
0.40mm 10% kV/mm 10.5 52 - 63
0.50mm 10% kV/mm 10.5 50 - 53
0.80mm* 10% kV/mm / /
1.00mm* 10% kV/mm / /

Looking at the data sheet for Elephanthide 4, it comes in the above thickness ranges, if you mic it up with a metric micrometer you should be able to get the nearest thickness to the original.

Regards
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 12:41 pm   #30
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Looking at the data sheet for Elephanthide 4, it comes in the above thickness ranges,
Thanks Trevor, I missed that bit. I saw the heading "electrical strength" and didn't look at the details. The original is 0.53mm +/- a bit, so I assume 0.5mm will do nicely
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:00 pm   #31
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

I rather like the wording of the Meccano Mag ad for the high voltage train [#22]: "The latest Hornby thrill"!
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:07 pm   #32
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I rather like the wording of the Meccano Mag ad for the high voltage train [#22]: "The latest Hornby thrill"!
Comfortingly the article assures us that there are "no difficulties or dangers" despite it apparently being plugged into a light socket by means of adapter 2.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 2:31 pm   #33
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Hi,
The locomotive works at 90v to 110v the dropping being obtained by the controller and the 60w lamp. I tend to use a fireglow bulb as it looks good.

If the locomotive is removed from the track then the full 240v is present so care is needed!

When used with track that had got oily insulation from over oiled clockwork locomotives being run on it, smoke was rising from the insulation when at 240v.

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Old 7th Feb 2018, 12:51 am   #34
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Off-topic regarding insulators, but on-topic regarding cleaning complex-shaped light-gauge rusty steel work in electrical installations: looking at your picture in post #16, I'd suggest having a go at electrolytic rust removal:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?p=983016

It won't damage what you have, and it'll be a lot easier to clean up than attempting to do it by abrasion. Don't do it with any alloy, or anything painted where you hope to save the paint.

If you use a galv anode, you'll lightly zinc-plate the work piece - not sure if you'll get enough on to make it less inclined to rust! Probably best done outside wrt fumes, splashes etc.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 9:45 am   #35
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I'd suggest having a go at electrolytic rust removal:
That's more or less what I do although I use sodium carbonate. NaOH as a way of getting rid of paint at the same time is an interesting variation though. I'll have to look into that.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:59 am   #36
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

Sorry, but I think you mean Sodium Hydroxide, Caustic Soda, NaOH.
Make sure you rinse it off well.
Caution when mixing with water; do it slowly, dribble the soda into the water.
Wear some form of safety glasses.
Caution if the water is hot, the mix can spatter or erupt violently.

This is often a main ingredient of dish washing detergent, and, in this manner, can be good for cleaning aluminium components, even tuning capacitors.

Our USA friends sometimes call this material Lye.

Use dilute Sodium Carbonate NaCo3 on its own (Washing Soda in AUS), for electrolytic cleaning, not NaOH.
One tablespoon per litre water is OK.

Use the caustic soda bath before the electrolytic cleaning for best and most efficient results.
Use with caution on aluminium, zinc, magnesium, stainless steel, and ventilate the processes.


Good luck, mike

Last edited by Radio1950; 7th Feb 2018 at 11:09 am.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 9:01 pm   #37
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Default Re: Hornby O-gauge track

I'll have to try washing soda - all my electrolytic cleaning has been with NaOH - caustic. On-line sources suggest the latter is more aggressive than the former - even with the latter, I still cook things for 24 hours or so. The simultaneous paint removal aspect can be quite useful.
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