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Old 7th Jul 2018, 3:05 pm   #1
Herald1360
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Default Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backbox?

I have been asked to replace a few old MK 4-screw fixing (two up, two down) 13A double sockets where I suspect damage to the shutters has made plug insertion very difficult. Does anyone know if a suitable adaptor plate exists or am I on my own here?

Suitably long thin woodscrews into plugs in the wall or possibly similar self tappers into the rear of the existing (recessed into the wall) backbox come to mind as possible workrounds.

Any old hand electricians about?
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 3:32 pm   #2
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

When you extrapolate the holes in the new front-plate rearwards, what do they hit? If holes in the back-box, and so brick - I'd go for what you suggested, drill some holes in the brick, bang in some dowels, and use thin woodscrews into them. If you hit steel - that is, the back-box - I'd try to drill and tap it for some long screws. If I were doing it for someone I didn't know, and charging - I suppose I'd pull the lot out and start again.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 6:03 pm   #3
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

I'd be tempted to pull the old boxes out and bang some new ones in.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 6:12 pm   #4
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Please bear in mind that the screws have to be earthed, the socket should do this but check.
Its a load of messing about drilling and plugging through the old box, easier to cut out the old boxes and wack in new ones.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 6:33 pm   #5
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Cutting out and replacing isn't a viable option for this job, ideal though it may be. Hence my original question.......

Noted re the screw earthing- good point, that.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 6:49 pm   #6
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
I'd be tempted to pull the old boxes out and bang some new ones in.
I'd agree:in the past I made up a 'puller' to do this - a couple of bits of bar to bridge the hole, and hooks on threaded-rods that engaged with the four screw-tabs on the old box. A 'deep' hex socket connected to a rattle-gun to tighten each threaded rod a bit at a time and the old box could be jacked-out easily, allowing a new one to be driven in [backed with some "Can't believe it's not nails" for retention, and the job could be done in five minutes without any need for replastering or paintwork.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 7:18 pm   #7
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Fix a surface frame or box over the old box?
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 8:28 pm   #8
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Easier to replace with working 4-screw sockets from ebay.

Or you may find the existing boxes are 6-lugs and will take a modern socket. Old fixing screws will be 4BA not M3.5 but I think you can tap a 4BA hole to M3.5
https://www.screwfix.com/p/c-k-rethr...-m3-5x-6/59312

A triple socket and surface box is wider than a double, so you can put fixing screws into the wall each side and well clear of the existing socket
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK2737.html

Or an MK K2177 mounting frame might mount over the existing box?
https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Pro.../K2133WHI.aspx
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 1:45 am   #9
G8UWM-MildMartin
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

The correct metal adaptor plates or frames certainly used to be made; one was fitted where I worked in 1983. Wish I could remember the make, but it may have been MK, Crabtree or Nettle.
(Unfortunately, I can't find one on a web search for pictures. Sorry!)
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 10:25 am   #10
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarFoxtrot View Post


Or you may find the existing boxes are 6-lugs and will take a modern socket. Old fixing screws will be 4BA not M3.5 but I think you can tap a 4BA hole to M3.5
https://www.screwfix.com/p/c-k-rethr...-m3-5x-6/59312


Or an MK K2177 mounting frame might mount over the existing box?
https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Pro.../K2133WHI.aspx
6-hole boxes would be the best scenario (haven't seen them yet). M3.5/4BA not a problem since I could reuse the original screws and win a few countersunk 4BA into the bargain.

The mounting frames (K2133?) look promising- if those four mounting holes coincide with the original 4-hole socket fixing positions.

Another possibility occurred to me (since putting plugs in is described as difficult rather than impossible) would be to leave a two way adaptor permanently in place. That has the merit of least effort required........
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 10:51 am   #11
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Small amount of Servisol on the shutter mechanism?
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 11:07 am   #12
mike_newcomb
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Hi Chris,
suggest check the Socket Convertors / Converers from Screwfix or Tool Station.
They are slim, surface mounted onto flush boxes and convert to 2, 3 or 4 gang.

I think some have all 2 and/or 4 hole fixing holes for the original flush boxes.

eg see:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/schneider...ails_container

Unfortunately I am in Contursi Terme, south of Salerno, and cannot access mine to double check.

Regards - Mike
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 2:58 pm   #13
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

I think it was 5BA, electrics used odd BA and electronics even. There is a tale that at a meeting it was decided to use only half the BA range and one sector mistook the result.
 
Old 8th Jul 2018, 4:41 pm   #14
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

The old MK sockets and boxes I have are all 4BA. The only odd BA sizes I have ever met have been on old GPO telephones.

The double metal boxes I used to rewire my house in 1977 all had six lugs to accept either 2-hole or 4- hole sockets, but I haven't seen any on sale for years. The ones I had were tapped 4BA. I recall ruining a couple of recycled MK bakelite surface boxes before i twigged that the new sockets had M3.5 screws. You could force a M3.5 screw into the tapped 4BA lug of a metal box, but trying this with the brass insert of a plastic box just made it jam and using more force simply broke the insert free from the plastic.

Last edited by emeritus; 8th Jul 2018 at 4:56 pm.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 6:54 pm   #15
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Hornby use odd BA sizes.
The idea of a permanent double adapter is appalling. please don't. they cause fires.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 7:34 pm   #16
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

Don't worry. Job done now. Turned out that the doubles were all on surface boxes with six fixings so the new sockets went straight on in place of the old. The adaptor idea was just along the lines of the sacrificial connector savers I've seen used on test equipment that is repeatedly connected and disconnected. The sockets themselves are not normally used for anything other than weekly vacuum cleaning duties.

More interestingly, the singles I changed were still wired in TRS, luckily the core insulation was still in good flexible condition. It's probably lasted 60 years so far so it should see out the 92 year old householder.

I've retained the old ones for investigation at leisure.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 8:28 pm   #17
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Default Re: Adaptor plate for fitting modern 2 screw double socket to old style 4 screw backb

In a tea chest in my loft are some lengths of the original TRS cable that our 1938-built house was wired with that I never got round to throwing out. It was made by Pirelli and has remained flexible and in excellent condition after some 80 years. On the other hand in the late 1970's the exposed lighting wiring in the loft of my cousin's house of similar vintage had completely disintegrated in places, leaving pairs of bare wires!
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