More AM closures

[turretslug]

The 162kHz carrier that was formerly modulated as France Inter is still present as a phase-modulated frequency reference, apparently with no less than 800kW.

There is a certain nostalgia in the periodic presence of "Kalundborg" on radio scales!

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

The public service ethos has been lost.

And how! What shall it profit a man if he gain the world and lose his own soul? This talk of "driving" listeners to inferior digital services would have been unthinkable even ten years ago. I have difficulty explaining to my teenage son why I was proud to work for the Corporation.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

This talk of "driving" listeners to inferior digital services would have been unthinkable even ten years ago.

Yet the digital services don’t have to be inferior, by choosing quality over quantity much more quality content could be produced and greater bandwidth used on its digital services. There is no reason they can’t cater for all, just not 24 hours a day on many different channels.

[Boulevardier]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

. I have difficulty explaining to my teenage son why I was proud to work for the Corporation.

I really feel with you Ted. I’ve never worked for the BBC, but I also used to feel (justifiably I think) proud of it as a British institution.

But we can’t escape the fact that we are now the “old fogies”, and younger generations find it more and more irrelevant to their lifestyle.

This is becoming a difficult thread to navigate, because we are continually brushing up against the boundary of “no political comment”. But there are times when the technical changes that concern us here have a direct and unavoidable political content and causation.

[paulsherwin]

We do indeed have to try hard not to violate the forum 'no politics' rule. I'd like to thank contributors to this thread for exercising restraint in that regard.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

Yet the digital services don’t have to be inferior

Quite so - and the BBC experimented with FLAC, which is a much better idea than AAC, but evidently somebody has decided the punters can't tell the difference.

[Avid_Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by lightning

Digital and internet is fine, and so is FM, so long as you are within range of the transmitter or have access to the internet.

There's many places where you cant receive DAB or FM, try driving up to Scotland and watch the car radio go silent once you start getting into the Highlands.

MW can be received even in the middle of nowhere.

I drive from the top of Scotland to Liverpool often. For a lot of the journey there's no R4FM just 5Live and R4LW (yes my car stereo has LW). If the Beeb stopped using AM there's no immediate tech to replace it for long drives. Maybe something could be done over the mobile 'phone network one day but that would have some gaps in coverage.

I can't see this happening anyway, oldies vote.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Avid_Nerdlinger

I drive from the top of Scotland to Liverpool often. For a lot of the journey there's no R4FM just 5Live and R4LW (yes my car stereo has LW). If the Beeb stopped using AM there's no immediate tech to replace it for long drives. .

The US and Canada has had satellite-radio [Sirius/XM] for several decades; when I was regularly visiting the US in the very-early-2000s it came bundled as standard with even a downmarket Chevrolet rental-car.

*loads* of stations - you'd be hard to find something that didn't meet your tastes.

[lightning]

lt's a bit like the Natwest closing our local bank, reason given because of "insufficient footfall" in the branch.

What a load of tosh. The bank always had a queue, one of my customers worked there and said it was never quiet.

They say these things like "listeners have moved to digital platforms" as an excuse to justify stopping AM transmissions, because they know it's difficult to prove otherwise.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by lightning

They say these things like "listeners have moved to digital platforms" as an excuse to justify stopping AM transmissions, because they know it's difficult to prove otherwise.

They very likely have moved or in some cases never were there.

They will put resources to serve the the most listeners, if MW numbers are relatively small, they will shut the service down unless some other organisation funds it.

It would be interesting though to know the percentage of listeners using MW to listen to 5 Live. It would at least give some perspective to what’s planned.

[hamid_1]

It's sad news that the BBC are ending their AM transmissions after 100 years on-air. But it's not really surprising. Those high-power transmitters must be expensive to run, especially now that electricity prices have rocketed. Switching them off appears to be an easy way to save quite a lot of money.

The BBC radio services are available on a number of platforms: analogue and DAB radio, Freeview and satellite TV as well as online. Closing one platform will save money but annoy some listeners. Ultimately those displaced listeners will buy another receiver or listen to something else. Hardly anyone will cancel their TV licence in protest, so it's a win-win situation for the BBC.

Closing Radio 4 Longwave is a bit more problematic. It's used for transmitting the shipping forecast, since the signal reaches far beyond the UK where FM, DAB and mobile phones do not. It's also used for switching some street lights and Economy 7 electricity meters. Those devices are being phased out, but if there are still some in use at the time of the proposed switch-off, a solution will have to be found.

We're quite lucky with AM radio in the UK. Some countries have already ended all AM radio broadcasting. At least we will still be left with Talksport, Absolute Radio, Caroline and some local AM stations. Maybe another broadcaster could take over 5 Live's frequencies, just like Caroline took over the former BBC World Service frequency. Let's hope so, although I get the feeling that the era of high-power AM broadcasting is coming to an end.

[Radio Wrangler]

I wouldn't be too surprised if the cost of keeping the masts and aerials maintained in a safe condition didn't exceed the maintenance and running costs of the transmitters.

Mass audience broadcasting on long and medium wave aew coming to an end. But the frequencies will still be there. All those kHz cost the governments nthing, but they charge money for licences. Fair enough, it goes to pay for spectrum management. But without the big audiences, the free market value of square km and kHz must fall. The bands could be given over to small-scale broadcasters, but oversight will create a floor that licence fees can't go below.

Viewing this as an opportunity, the 9kHz bandplan is no longer needed so we could have some higher quality AM stations as in days of yore. Caroline could grow more watts and repeater stations.

Maybe I'm just miffed since the BBC stopped playing music for my age group?

David

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by lightning

What about all the foreign ones that appear at night, most of them play English music.

Haven't most of the high power MW European state broadcasts gone the same way as their SW counterparts?

Here in Prestwich on a "typical 6 transistor pocket portable" at night, I receive the same five groundwave stations that are there in the daytime.

Bury Community Radio.
Gold.
Absolute Radio
Talksport.
Five Live.

[Avid_Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

The US and Canada has had satellite-radio [Sirius/XM] for several decades; when I was regularly visiting the US in the very-early-2000s it came bundled as standard with even a downmarket Chevrolet rental-car.

*loads* of stations - you'd be hard to find something that didn't meet your tastes.

https://forums.digitalspy.com/discus...io-uk-for-cars

The satellite radio alternative for driving might be too expensive and difficult to fund commercially, requiring 3 satellites in elliptical planetary orbits for a relatively small territory. Perhaps it could be government funded but the status quo might be cheaper, especially for the existing users of AM radio.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by Avid_Nerdlinger

the status quo might be cheaper, especially for the existing users of AM radio.

It appears they are not concerned with exiting AM radio users.

[agardiner]

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

They very likely have moved or in some cases never were there.

They will put resources to serve the the most listeners, if MW numbers are relatively small, they will shut the service down unless some other organisation funds it.

It would be interesting though to know the percentage of listeners using MW to listen to 5 Live. It would at least give some perspective to what’s planned.

Last figures showed 42% of Five Live's listeners were consuming via MW.

[Avid_Nerdlinger]

This announcement of a future switch-off might just be a tactic to counter defunding of BBC, I expect many of the small c conservative AM listeners are natural capital C voters.

[Ian - G4JQT]

The longer term use of MW might be interesting. I can't see any new big broadcasters wanting to move on to it for the reasons stations are moving off. But I dare say we might get something like the US Part 15 where very low power stations are permitted with only minimal control. Or maybe an expansion of Low Power AM Restricted Service Licence stations.

Of course the elephant in the room is the ever rising noise level in most domestic environments from modern electronics, and now there's little if any will to enforce the EMC regulations on the AM bands - if there ever was!

Time to get those pantry transmitters further developed and powered up.

[Nuvistor]

With regards to the National Attack Warning System ( NAWS) this report is from 2013 details the removal of LW from that purpose
Page 7 para 3.1.6

https://assets.publishing.service.go...cations_1_.pdf


Lots of other information in the document and it’s possible that a revised version is available.

[Hybrid tellies]

Sailors and fisherman still use the shipping and coastal forecasts as a back up to satellite services which can suffer dropouts. Its no good sticking these forecasts on FM or DAB as these signals just don't have the required range. Once you have gone a few miles away from the coast the FM/DAB signals soon disappear and in some remote coastal locations FM and DAB reception is very poor.

I notice with my son and the students I work with that all radio and the BBC are just not relevant to their lives anymore and many would not even notice if the BBC and most of the commercial TV and radio services were closed. They access their news, music films etc from online sources.

Very different from our day when the BBC was the major media source and radio was still our main source of music, news, weather and sport news.