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Old 5th Jul 2018, 8:05 am   #1
electronicskip
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Default 16mm Colour film help needed

I have some 16mm Colour film from 1952 54 and 55 of the Napier Fun days that the factory used to hold once a year sort of like fete/fair for the employees and their families and for a charity.
My father used to organise this yearly funday when he worked for the firm for many years.
My Question is. its NON sound , so can I run it on a 16mm sound projector or do I need a non sound projector?
I really have no knowledge of 16mm stuff so hopefully someone will be able to help me .
Also can anyone recommend a particular reasonably priced projector to look out for?
Thank you.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 8:42 am   #2
llama
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

Having been down a similar route last year (several family 8mm films, 2 tries at sourcing a projector, poor results...) my recommendation to you would be: send it off. Save yourself the time and grief trying to resurrect a (probably) old projector and get a professional DVD to play at your leisure. My set of films cost about £100 to digitise but I'd already spent tens of pounds on projectors. I thought it would be fun but it really wasn't!
PM me for the firm I used if you like.
Graham
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 8:54 am   #3
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

You can use a sound projector and these are more available second hand than silent ones. The projector must have speed adjustment as the silent film will be 16 or 18 frames per second.
Sprocket holes will play for the sound track so keep the volume down!
Have you considered getting the films transferred to digital storage media?

You may find a reasonably priced Bell and Howell machine but as they are getting rarer the prices seem to be going up.

John
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 8:58 am   #4
kan_turk
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

The straight answer is - no you don't need a 'silent' projector - just turn the volume down on a sound projector but llamas comments are entirely valid plus there is the risk of film damage especially with an unknown projector - better to get film transferred to another medium or two different media even better bearing in mind that DVD is not an entirely stable medium - much less so than film stored in the correct conditions & keep the original film in a safe place in case further transfers are needed in the future bearing in mind that the ability to replay film is likely to be with us long after DVD in its current form has been long forgotten

Hope this helps

J

Last edited by kan_turk; 5th Jul 2018 at 8:59 am. Reason: Mispelling
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 8:58 am   #5
wd40addict
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

Silent 16mm film can be shown on any 16mm sound projector. The reverse it not necessarily true as many 16mm silent projectors were designed with sprockets that engaged in both rows of perforations of silent film.

When sound was added to the 16mm specification one row of perforations was removed and replaced with the soundtrack.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:27 am   #6
cheerfulcharlie
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

Agree with others -send it off
Telecines they use don't have nasty clapped out old claw mechanisms or hot lamps spraying out UV and IR which may damage the film.
Also a colossal improvement on the flickering film to VHS transfers done in the 1980s.
The more professional transfer houses will use a 'frame by frame' transfer and offer you much more than just a DVD..such as a digital file you can copy and paste around your computers and interact with other programs.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:39 am   #7
Restoration73
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

Lots of films of this type can be seen on Talking Pictures TV who seem to do the transfers.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:41 am   #8
emeritus
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

You can run silent 16mm film on a sound projector, but some flicker will probably be apparent. Projectors for silent films have s 3-bladed shutter to give 48 flickers per second at 16fps. Sound projectors normally have a 2-bladed shutter to give 48/sec at 24fps, but will only give 32 flickers/sec when showing silent films at their correct speed. Sound projectors could be supplied with a 3-bladed shutter for better projections of silent films, but I never came across one. I do wonder if the modern tendency for simulating film as a flickering image that is so common on TV these days comes from producers who have only seen silent film shown on a sound projector. I have managed flicker-free transfer of 8mm film to digital using a dv camcorder. You need to be able to run the projector (which must have a 3 bladed shutter) at exactly 16 2/3 fps.

Last edited by emeritus; 5th Jul 2018 at 10:56 am.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 11:49 am   #9
Ambientnoise
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

There was a thread about transfers to dvd here

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=120899

Ken
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 11:55 am   #10
electronicskip
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

The last time these films were run was about 15 years ago on a professional 16mm projector which belonged to a friend who is no longer living in this country so I cant ask him again.
I do remember that one of the films snapped and had to be spliced .
I will be getting them copied onto another format for sure as others in my family want to see them .
Lots for me to read up on and good advice from the forum members , thank you.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 9:26 pm   #11
Lucien Nunes
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Default Re: 16mm Colour film help needed

Quote:
Sound projectors could be supplied with a 3-bladed shutter for better projections of silent films, but I never came across one
I have one - the Siemens 2000 - that has a switchable shutter. A dial within the inching knob can be rotated into one of two positions. This rotates one part of the concentric main shaft relative to the other, to position the blades accordingly. It's actually a very versatile machine with both optical sound and a multi-track synced mag player on the back.

I'd agree that a professional telecine job will be better than anything you can do at home, although I strongly advise keeping the film afterwards. If it was shot on a reasonable camera, there will be more picture information in the film print than the DVD can encode, and it may outlast the DVD,

If you do opt to get a projector, remember that the intermittent mechanism - the claws and the cams that move them - and the film track through the gate, are the heart of the machine and it will only be as steady, and handle the film as gently, as these permit. Everything else can be worked around but worn-out claws and guides will spoil the results.

A word of warning about the popular and plentiful Bell & Howell Filmosounds and related models from the 60s right up to the mid 80s. These have a main worm gear that cracks over time, eventually shattering catastrophically mid-reel. Googling will show you what to look for. Modern replacement gears are available and work well, but be aware that replacement is not a 5-minute job and requires correct adjustment and alignment.
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