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Old 19th May 2019, 9:38 pm   #1
andrewferguson
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Default Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

A while ago I was talking with a friend who recalled some early Scottish television series that they had watched when they were originally broadcast, and would love to see again. They were:
  • The Borderers (1968)
  • Weir of Hermiston (1973?)
  • The Flight of the Heron (1968)
Being too young to have ever seen any of these, my initial thought was to first determine if copies of these shows are even known to exist, as to continue looking otherwise would be a bit of a dead-end. I thought I would do this using lostshows.com (now tvbrain.info) and I was able to lookup 'The Borderers' on their site and find that the majority of season 1 is known to exist (and indeed it seems that a few episodes are available on YouTube, long may they last before a copyright claim is filed against them!).

Unfortunately TVBrain seems to require a 'Gold Subscription' to access the database for the other two shows, and I'm a bit reluctant to pay a 50 annual subscription just to look up two shows. I don't suppose there is anyone here that has such a subscription and would be willing to lookup both 'Weir of Hermiston' and 'The Flight of the Heron' and see what (if any) episodes are known to exist?
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Old 22nd May 2019, 9:53 am   #2
Restoration73
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

I remember seeing the second title back then. All have been/are available on DVD if searched, note these may be in the public domain if the copyright has expired, but could be transfers from original film (telerecording) or VT.

Despite modern restoration techniques, for a small market the cost may be uneconomic.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 3:24 pm   #3
andrewferguson
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

I had looked for all these (what I thought was quite extensively) and drawn a blank, but having searched again today I found this page that appears to sell various old-TV DVDs, including "Flight of the Heron". (I may also contact them about the other two series, on the off chance that they have them as well).

So thank you very much, Restoration73 - that appears to be one off the list.

I don't suppose you have any more information about the DVD releases of the other two series? It probably requires someone more adept at google-fu than me, but I can't find anything.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 4:40 pm   #4
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Link is missing.

It wasn't 'Stojo' by any chance?
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Old 22nd May 2019, 4:59 pm   #5
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

http://bobmeades-ivil.tripod.com/id13.html
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Old 22nd May 2019, 5:02 pm   #6
andrewferguson
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Yes, that's the one! (Sorry about that, completely forgot to actually add the link!)
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Old 22nd May 2019, 5:29 pm   #7
cheerfulcharlie
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewferguson View Post
A while ago I was talking with a friend who recalled some early Scottish television series that they had watched when they were originally broadcast, and would love to see again. They were:
  • The Borderers (1968)
  • Weir of Hermiston (1973?)
  • The Flight of the Heron (1968)
Being too young to have ever seen any of these, my initial thought was to first determine if copies of these shows are even known to exist, as to continue looking otherwise would be a bit of a dead-end. I thought I would do this using lostshows.com (now tvbrain.info) and I was able to lookup 'The Borderers' on their site and find that the majority of season 1 is known to exist (and indeed it seems that a few episodes are available on YouTube, long may they last before a copyright claim is filed against them!).

Unfortunately TVBrain seems to require a 'Gold Subscription' to access the database for the other two shows, and I'm a bit reluctant to pay a 50 annual subscription just to look up two shows. I don't suppose there is anyone here that has such a subscription and would be willing to lookup both 'Weir of Hermiston' and 'The Flight of the Heron' and see what (if any) episodes are known to exist?

According to Lost Shows both 'Weir of Hermiston' and 'Flight of the Heron'
entirely exist and that is why your not seeing much info on them on Lost Shows, if there were episodes missing or not in their master format then Lost Shows would be more detailed.
The IMDB has info on the cast in the episodes but not a plot description

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1417566/reference

and https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398466/reference

I seem to recall Moultrie Kessall got criticism as the writer of 'flight of the heron' and told he should have stuck to acting by one ungenerous critic.

Shows that were made for the network you could probably get directly from ITV.https://www.itv.com/presscentre/content/contact
However they may charge a couple of hundred pounds for a bespoke DVD of a series that may not have got an official release yet.
Also the BFI may have them as well?

The other thing is that Scottish TV is a bit of a loose cannon on the network, so you may be able to get them directly from them?

BTW. 'Public Domain' is an American thingy and does not apply in the UK. Although if a brit show was shown in the US and the copyright was not renewed (after I think 50 years) then it would become PD over there.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 6:39 pm   #8
julie_m
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

The Public Domain does exist in the UK; Copyright is merely a sweetener to encourage people to contribute works to it. However, the duration of copyright protection in the UK was historically longer than in the USA.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 8:18 pm   #9
cheerfulcharlie
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
The Public Domain does exist in the UK; Copyright is merely a sweetener to encourage people to contribute works to it. However, the duration of copyright protection in the UK was historically longer than in the USA.

Probably in a different context?

For example a television drama anthology series made in the UK was discovered a while back called " The Errol Flynn Theatre" made in the 1950s, attempts to find the copyright owner by those who have found the prints have proved fruitless, as obviously everyone associated with this is probably dead and rights ownership was probably never sold on to a big distributor in the light of Errol Flynn's own death...so they remain in limbo as they cannot be shown in the UK because of copyright protection.

Now in the US a similar situation arose with a show called 'One Step Beyond' they could not find a copyright owner (or someone who later bought the rights) so this has gone into public domain and anybody can do what they like with it, until a distributor comes along and offers the gov some dosh to renew the copyright protection.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 11:13 pm   #10
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Copyright law in the US was long different from the rest of the world in that you had to file a copy of the work with the library of Congress to get copyright protection. Elsewhere, copyright came into existence automatically . The US only fell into line with the rest of the world in the late 1990's. I forget what the transitional arrangements were, if any, but for older stuff, no registration= no copyright in the USA, hence public domain in the USA. Copyright would still exist in other countries. Copyright law is fiendishly complex and the goalposts get changed periodically, often by international agreements that always seem to extend protection. Paying to renew copyright, once only, is a peculiarly US thing. Elsewhere it comes into existence and remains in force until it expires.

Last edited by emeritus; 22nd May 2019 at 11:31 pm. Reason: Correcting smartphone autotext!
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Old 23rd May 2019, 7:13 am   #11
Electronpusher0
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
The Public Domain does exist in the UK; Copyright is merely a sweetener to encourage people to contribute works to it. However, the duration of copyright protection in the UK was historically longer than in the USA.

Probably in a different context?

For example a television drama anthology series made in the UK was discovered a while back called " The Errol Flynn Theatre" made in the 1950s, attempts to find the copyright owner by those who have found the prints have proved fruitless, as obviously everyone associated with this is probably dead and rights ownership was probably never sold on to a big distributor in the light of Errol Flynn's own death...so they remain in limbo as they cannot be shown in the UK because of copyright protection.

Now in the US a similar situation arose with a show called 'One Step Beyond' they could not find a copyright owner (or someone who later bought the rights) so this has gone into public domain and anybody can do what they like with it, until a distributor comes along and offers the gov some dosh to renew the copyright protection.
It may be possible to get copies of films from a source in the USA. Slightly off topic but I managed to get a book series in e-book format that is not available in the UK due to copyright reasons via a source in the USA. (I also have the printed set and would not share with others so my concience is clear)

Peter
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Old 23rd May 2019, 8:06 am   #12
petervk2mlg
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

I remember seeing a BBC documentary series called "The Lost Peace" in the early 1970s.
I've not been able to find any trace of it about from a few references.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 2:20 pm   #13
cheerfulcharlie
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Default Re: Searching for "Lost" TV shows - anyone have a TVBrain Gold subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
Copyright law in the US was long different from the rest of the world in that you had to file a copy of the work with the library of Congress to get copyright protection. Elsewhere, copyright came into existence automatically . The US only fell into line with the rest of the world in the late 1990's. I forget what the transitional arrangements were, if any, but for older stuff, no registration= no copyright in the USA, hence public domain in the USA. Copyright would still exist in other countries. Copyright law is fiendishly complex and the goalposts get changed periodically, often by international agreements that always seem to extend protection. Paying to renew copyright, once only, is a peculiarly US thing. Elsewhere it comes into existence and remains in force until it expires.
yes and I forgot to add that it's different for sound recordings as well and the UK and US situation is in reverse ..where an aging popular disc can fall out of copyright in the UK but not in the US. If you buy a re-issue CD of an old number and it has the words "copyright control" beside it..it means reasonable attempts have been made to find the rights owner which have come to nothing and (I think) a donation has been paid to the musician's union..something like that anyway.
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