Strad Grand Piano Radio/Phono

[wrustykey]

Okay, I purchased the cabinet in the photos at an auction today. It stands just over 3ft high and just under 3ft long. There is the original radio dial panel still in place but everything else (electronics) are gone.

I'm not sure what I want to do with this yet. It would be really cool to put it back like it was years ago. Or I could make something else out of the cabinet?

So can anyone tell me:

1. Make/Model of the piano cabinet/radio?
2. What model radio / phonograph would have gone in it?
3. Can I get this radio / phonograph today? (used obviously).
4. Anyone want to take a guess on the value, empty and with working radio/photograph?
5. What went under the door where the piano keys would be?

Thanks in advance and I really look forward to hearing about this cool piece.

Rusty

[wrustykey]

Here is a photo of the face plate inside the cabinet.

[Darren-UK]

Whatever that began life as, it wasn't a radio or radiogram. It's been converted; the crudity of the panel beneath the lid gives that away.

If that pear-shaped cutout was once where a record deck sat, then the deck was likely a single-play effort and probably one of those ghastly Philips add-on things.

Pianos are off topic but I will suggest the cabinet probably didn't begin life as a 'proper' piano. I think it's too small for even a Baby Grand. There were mechanical gramophones in 'piano' cabinets or, if it's much later, it may even have contained a small electronic keyboard. I'm no expert though.

Value is difficult, especially as you're in the USA, so I can't really say. It's difficult to suggest what you can do with it too; I think if it was mine I'd refit a radio or just use it as a storage unit for papers, letters or whatever.

[Nickthedentist]

Can I see the remnants of a winding handle on the side?

[raditechman]

It is difficult to tell from your photo but the faceplate appears to have a dial marked out for SW, MW and LW, as Long Waves are not used in the US the missing radio part may have had UK origins, assuming the station names are in English. I believe there was a company RM Electric of Durham UK who made a series of radios with the name Strad.
Maybe someone used a "Strad" chassis and decided to put it into a "grand piano" although Strad would normally be associated with violins.
I think I would try and fit a valve radio chassis in the cabinet, not sure what I would do with the record deck cut out.
John

[Nickthedentist]

Something vaguely similar here: http://radioshowcase.com/i-158867-ge...-534-1938.html

This Strad 502 radiogram shows a similar dial/knob arrangement: http://www.vintage-technology.info/p...c/strad502.htm, as does the Strad 510 table radio from 1950: http://www.vintage-technology.info/p...c/strad510.htm

I'm not as convinced as Darren that the board is home-made. Is it crudely done underneath?

I am avbsolutely certain that this was never a piano, though I vaguely recall a wind-up gramophone in a miniature piano-style cabinet. Maybe someone modernised one in the fifties?

Re. the "keyboard", how wide is it, and is there anything under the lid?

N.

[Cobaltblue]

That tuning scale looks as if it may be from this Model STRAD

It may have been used in other STRAD sets as well.

A curious beast

Cheers

Mike T

[wrustykey]

Fantastic comments gentlemen and all are appreciated.

I beleive the cabinet was purpose built for a radio/phonograph and the reason being is 1)it could have never supported piano components nor does is have the markings of have them, 2) the inside cover plate of wood is EXACTLY the same finish as the rest of the cabinet and it fits extremely precise, 3) there are markings and holes underneath that appear to have supported the electronics, 4) on the side is what appears to have been where the crank poked through the side (actually there are two holes, one pluged with wood and the other you can faintly see has a metal screen now applied.)

Yes the words on the face plate are in english. While the cut out for you "turn table" is crude, there are other bolt holes around it so I'm assuming it was crudely cut because it would not be seen as it was covered by the turn table components.

I will try to get a better photo of the face plate and post it here.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Rusty

[wrustykey]

Oh, I guess I should also mention that inside of the cabinet, under the face plate board is lined in red velvet cloth!

[Mr Moose]

Hello,

This may form a clue. To quote from the auction catalogue "An Operaphone gramophone contained in a walnut cabinet in the form of a grand piano 29" "

One in action here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAlivTn2gI0

Yours, Richard

[mark pirate]

I have seen one of these many years ago, it was as Richard has said, a wind up gramophone, it has obviously been retrofitted with both the radio chassis and turntable.

You could refit it with a wind up gramophone, or fit it out with either a vintage radiogram chassis, or something modern, either way it is a nice item of furniture.
The choice is yours.

Mark

[Nickthedentist]

Richard/Mr Moose,

That was the machine I was thinking of, well spotted!

N.

[wrustykey]

Here is a better photo of the face plate. Any good guesses on the model?

It certainly looks like the Operaphone so now I am wondering if they made a radio/phono model? However, I am leaning to the theory it was made perhaps in the 20's and the maybe in the 40's updated with the radio and electric phono. An opinions on the dating guesses?

Rusty

[greenstar]

The dial glass you have must be 1950's, and looks like the 1950 Strad set Mike posted, so it was updated. I'd doubt it had a radio originally contemporary with the wind up gram, as the cut outs don't suggest a 20's radio. I'd think it was simply a mechanical gramophone, maybe with the horn emerging where the keys would be?
Perhaps fit something without further changing the cabinet, and keep an ear for some works turning up in a ruined cabinet? The usa is such a big place, you may have a chance there is one somewhere!

[Nickthedentist]

Yes, I'm now certain that it's a wind-up gramophone that's been modernised in the early 50s, being converted into a radiogram complete with mains-powered record deck.

I wonder whether anyone can identify what record deck was fitted by looking at the cutout? The Strad radiogram which apparently has the same chassis which I posted a link to in post 6 was fitted with a Garrard changer.

If it were mine, I'd feel free to fit whatever I wanted/needed inside: wind-up gramophone, 50s radiogram bits, iPod dock, the choice is yours and you won't have marred an unmolested piece of vintage technology!

N.

Nick.

[Mr Moose]

Hello,

Your Radio/Phono started off as a wind up gramophone/phonograph (I think you call a gramophone a phonograph in America) . There would have been an internal horn with the sound coming from the lift up flap at the front. One source quotes that there were louvres behind the flap. With the lid open at the back near the hinges was a place where records could be stored (vertically I think) and this was lined with baize or felt to protect the records hence the felt on yours.
As others have said the original wind up mechanism, horn and baseboard have been removed and replaced by a modern record deck, radio/amplifier and baseboard at some time probably 1950/60s.

People seem to quote prices of $500 plus for the original wind up gramophone/phonograph in good condition. You might be able to acquire and or fabricate the parts needed to restore it to its original wind up condition. The YouTube clip in my earlier post gives you some idea of what you would need.

Rebuilding it to its later 1950/60s condition would I suspect not increase its value by much. You would probably be better off fitting modern audio equipment in the case, provided you didn't alter any of the original parts of the case.

Yours Richard

[maninashed]

What an interesting find. Im inclined to go along with Cobaltblue, in that it could very well have been fitted with a 1950 Strad chassis from a 510. The only thing that bothers me is that the 510 was 240v AC, and the valve line up would have been TH41, VP41,HL42DD, PEN45 and UU6. British 5/7 pin valves. Im not sure how available these may have been over in the States. Im more inclined to go for the Strad 511, this set was 110v-240v, and also had an American valve line up. These were 7S7, 7B7,7C6, 35L6GT and a 6X5 rectifier. Most Strad sets of the 50s had that 4 control knob line up, with the on/off switch on the tone control on the lefthand side.
I think the furniture dates from earlier and was originally fitted with a wind-up gramophone. It will have been 'converted' in the 50s and 'modernised'
Strad sets over here are not exactly rare, they were made by RM Electric, Team Valley, Gateshead in the North East of England. I have two, a 553W and a 45FM which I believe is their last model and not very common. They are both in working order and sound really good.
You could restore your piece to original with the correct components, how easy (or expensive) that would be is anyones guess, or you could replace it with a chassis from a 50s Strad radio and fit a 50's period record player. Either way it wont be cheap but the choice is yours.
Hope this helps
Bill

[wrustykey]

Great ideas all! The advice here is awesome and greatly appreciated.

So... here's what I would like to pursue.

Since the original inner support board was removed and replace with a very well fabricated board to mount a "modern" Strad in the mid 50's and I don't have the original gramophone support components, I want to first try to put it back to the way it was 'modernized' back in the day. The quality of the modifcation is very good and I think it adds appeal.

To this end, the sugestions seem to be a model 510 or 511 (American voltage). Does the 511 and 510 chassis have the same physical dimentions for the knob placement? If I measure the hole distances (center to center) would this help determine chassis or were the knob locations adjustable?

If I go with one of the 51x models, were there any cabinets made with this chassis that also included a phonograph? I'm assuming that the phono would have been tied into the radio to share amp, speakers and controls.

Ths all being said (and asked) the next big question becomes, how much sould I expect to pay for a 51x chassis and possible related phono? I don't require a working model as I have some limited experience. I'm currenting working on a Ristaucrat R-45 bartop jukebox as well. Anyone have one they can part with?

If this 'restoration' effort becomes to expensive, I will then weigh the options of putting in modern electronics or selling the cabinet to someone who has the old electronics to put in it. Currently I'm into the cabinet for about $75.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice!

Rusty Key
www.rustykey.cm
Visit my site for more insight into my projects (rock-ola, pinballs, trebuchets, etc.)

[maninashed]

Might be a good idea to place an ad in the parts wanted section and ask the members if anyone has a basket case Strad 511 with a poor cabinet, you may be lucky. Dont rush into it because sourcing what you require may take time. These things crop up all the time and come to light at swapmeets and local auction rooms etc. As I see it, your main problem will be the cost of shipping across the pond.
Post the measurements of the control knob shaft spacings on your cabinet, someone will have a 511 and may be prepared to check the measurements.
There were some, we call them 'Radiograms' over here, made by Strad. They are usually a large cabinet containing a radio set, which has a setting on the wave-change switch called 'gram', this connected the pick-up from the record player to the input of the amplifier in the radio. A large speaker was also used and this just adds to the weight. Trying to ship one of these monsters would be very difficult indeed AND expensive.
Bill

[Nickthedentist]

Bill's right, but a Strad radiogram would only sell for a few pounds on eBay, if at all, and it would only be half an hour's work to remove the deck, chassis and speaker and "flat-pack" then dispose of the remains. The useful stuff could then possibly be shipped reasonably.

Thus it might be worth setting up an eBay search to notify you of any Strad radiograms (or radios) that come up for sale.

N.