E.A.R Bantam Reproducer - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

TMGE666 · 1st Jul 2019, 10:33 am

Hello all.

I have an E.A.R Bantam reproducer marked Nov 57 which I picked up for $10.00 at a local auction house 12 years back. It recently fell on my foot when I was rearranging the garage and so I thought I would take a look at it.

It will only play audio for say 2 minutes tops, sometimes less. The sound just dies, but the motor keeps running.
Two valves, one wax capacitor, one metal can and two resistors is all there is. Can anyone give me a heads up as to what may be the issue please.

All comments gratefully received.

Cheers,

David.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 1st Jul 2019, 10:53 am

The wax capacitor is a prime suspect(I regard them as 'change on sight' components) especially in a two-stage circuit where it couples the anode of the first stage to the control grid of the next (output) stage. Other possible causes are the metal rectifier, if one is used, and the reservoir & Smoothing capacitors (in the metal can). What valves are used UY85/UL84? (This is the typical 'one-valve'- so called because the UY85 is a rectifier)

Edward Huggins · 1st Jul 2019, 10:56 am

Corroded cartridge connectors? A faulty EZ80 rectifier? The Collaro Studio "T" cartridge on these are usually good survivors.

TMGE666 · 2nd Jul 2019, 5:05 am

Thanks Gents.

Valves are EZ80 and EL84. I don't see a metal rectifier.

I had a “brand new” cartridge , which I tried first but that made no difference.

I’ll go for the wax capacitor as a first stop.

Is there anywhere specific for audio stuff that you guys go to or is one cap as good as another?

Thanks again.

David

'LIVEWIRE?' · 2nd Jul 2019, 8:27 am

Apologies, David. I wasn't sure what circuit was used in the Bantam Player. Is the other valve an ECL8X i.e. a triode-pentode? If so that wax cap. is almost certainly the one commonly called 'that cap', which connects the triode anode to the pentode control grid. If so it must be changed as it will almost certainly be electrically leaky. I, and many other forum members use the yellow axial capacitors rated at 400, 630, or 1000v. to replace waxies. These are available from several suppliers in a wide range of capacitances. Use the nearest available value to that of the original.

electrogram · 2nd Jul 2019, 10:42 am

Ez80/EL84 version has live chassis, the mains transformer is for heaters only, paralleled ez80 anodes

Herald1360 · 2nd Jul 2019, 10:54 am

So... the wax cap presumably isn't a grid coupler. Screen grid decoupler perhaps or more likely top cut tone control. Either could cause mayhem but not necessarily.

No EL84 / EZ80 version in Paul's CD, perhaps you could post it up?

Edward Huggins · 2nd Jul 2019, 11:13 am

The wax capacitor is just for the tone control. It uses a simple single-stage EL84/EZ80 circuit.

electrogram · 2nd Jul 2019, 11:54 am

I don't have a circuit for it, I have repaired a few of them. I currently have one that's been sitting in the dining room for three years waiting for an output transformer to turn up, I now have a couple which might do. I've got an idea that the tone cap goes to chassis, not ht+, which probably caused my problem. I'll have a look at it later.

TMGE666 · 3rd Jul 2019, 1:19 am

Thanks Gents.
So are we saying that the wax capacitor in this instance would not be the cause of the sound dying? And if so, what would be an alternative please.
Cheers,

David.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 3rd Jul 2019, 8:01 am

If it is wired between the EL84 anode and chassis it could be the cause of the sound dying away, as a leaky capacitor here will drag the anode voltage down. As I noted earlier, I'd replace the waxie anyway!

electrogram · 3rd Jul 2019, 11:48 am

If it is wired to chassis from anode (via tone control pot) and is leaky it could burn out the output transformer primary which could be difficult/expensive to replace

nicam49 · 3rd Jul 2019, 12:42 pm

Never mind the record player, how's the foot?

TMGE666 · 4th Jul 2019, 12:50 am

Thanks again.

Foot is doing well, luckily, it only fell from a shelf underneath a counter, maybe 2 foot. I once went to the tip with an old tv unit, was walking over to the recycle part and a shelf slid out and caught me fair on the top of the foot. It hurt that bad I had trouble driving back home!

Cheers,

D

electrogram · 8th Jul 2019, 11:28 pm

Bantam circuit, my player has a correctly wired three core mains lead. You need to be certain the amplifier chassis in your player is connected to mains neutral.

TMGE666 · 18th Jul 2019, 9:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrogram

Bantam circuit, my player has a correctly wired three core mains lead. You need to be certain the amplifier chassis in your player is connected to mains neutral.

Thanks. Will look into it.

D

TMGE666 · 18th Jul 2019, 9:59 am

Finally got around to putting a new capacitor in the machine. All good and now the sound does not cut out. Irritatingly, I cannot seem to adjust the tone arm so that it allows it enough travel towards the centre of the record to enable the motor to switch off, its better than it was so I know where to adjust the two screws under the tone arm, but I seem to have run out of adjustment and its still not perfect. The motor sometimes seems to need to warm up before it reaches playing speed. It is what it is. Thanks for all the help.

Cheers,

D.

julie_m · 18th Jul 2019, 11:22 am

It's not the position of the tonearm that signals the end of the record, but the speed with which it is moving. Make sure there is no grease on the trip mechanism; it relies on metal-to-metal friction.

TMGE666 · 18th Jul 2019, 11:49 am

Interesting. Before I adjusted it, it would only go to say 3/4 of the way through the record before it met resistance and wanted to stop. Now it goes almost all of the way through most records. I’ll have a clean up and see if it makes a difference.
Thanks,

D

Lucien Nunes · 18th Jul 2019, 2:15 pm

There are some sticky topics at the head of this sub-forum with descriptions of how the velocity trip works and various specific changers. Have a read first - if you are not familiar with autochangers some of the mechanisms are not intuitive to a first inspection.

Speed too low when cold indicates congealed oil / grease (or slipping idler) and like the trip mechanism should be fine after a careful clean and relube.

1st Jul 2019, 10:33 am	#1
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Hello all. I have an E.A.R Bantam reproducer marked Nov 57 which I picked up for $10.00 at a local auction house 12 years back. It recently fell on my foot when I was rearranging the garage and so I thought I would take a look at it. It will only play audio for say 2 minutes tops, sometimes less. The sound just dies, but the motor keeps running. Two valves, one wax capacitor, one metal can and two resistors is all there is. Can anyone give me a heads up as to what may be the issue please. All comments gratefully received. Cheers, David.

1st Jul 2019, 10:53 am	#2
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer The wax capacitor is a prime suspect(I regard them as 'change on sight' components) especially in a two-stage circuit where it couples the anode of the first stage to the control grid of the next (output) stage. Other possible causes are the metal rectifier, if one is used, and the reservoir & Smoothing capacitors (in the metal can). What valves are used UY85/UL84? (This is the typical 'one-valve'- so called because the UY85 is a rectifier)

1st Jul 2019, 10:56 am	#3
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Corroded cartridge connectors? A faulty EZ80 rectifier? The Collaro Studio "T" cartridge on these are usually good survivors. __________________ Edward.

2nd Jul 2019, 5:05 am	#4
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Thanks Gents. Valves are EZ80 and EL84. I don't see a metal rectifier. I had a “brand new” cartridge , which I tried first but that made no difference. I’ll go for the wax capacitor as a first stop. Is there anywhere specific for audio stuff that you guys go to or is one cap as good as another? Thanks again. David

2nd Jul 2019, 8:27 am	#5
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Apologies, David. I wasn't sure what circuit was used in the Bantam Player. Is the other valve an ECL8X i.e. a triode-pentode? If so that wax cap. is almost certainly the one commonly called 'that cap', which connects the triode anode to the pentode control grid. If so it must be changed as it will almost certainly be electrically leaky. I, and many other forum members use the yellow axial capacitors rated at 400, 630, or 1000v. to replace waxies. These are available from several suppliers in a wide range of capacitances. Use the nearest available value to that of the original.

2nd Jul 2019, 10:42 am	#6
electrogram Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hereford, UK. Posts: 719	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Ez80/EL84 version has live chassis, the mains transformer is for heaters only, paralleled ez80 anodes

2nd Jul 2019, 10:54 am	#7
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer So... the wax cap presumably isn't a grid coupler. Screen grid decoupler perhaps or more likely top cut tone control. Either could cause mayhem but not necessarily. No EL84 / EZ80 version in Paul's CD, perhaps you could post it up? __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O Last edited by Herald1360; 2nd Jul 2019 at 11:00 am.

2nd Jul 2019, 11:13 am	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer The wax capacitor is just for the tone control. It uses a simple single-stage EL84/EZ80 circuit. __________________ Edward.

2nd Jul 2019, 11:54 am	#9
electrogram Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hereford, UK. Posts: 719	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer I don't have a circuit for it, I have repaired a few of them. I currently have one that's been sitting in the dining room for three years waiting for an output transformer to turn up, I now have a couple which might do. I've got an idea that the tone cap goes to chassis, not ht+, which probably caused my problem. I'll have a look at it later.

3rd Jul 2019, 1:19 am	#10
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Thanks Gents. So are we saying that the wax capacitor in this instance would not be the cause of the sound dying? And if so, what would be an alternative please. Cheers, David.

3rd Jul 2019, 8:01 am	#11
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer If it is wired between the EL84 anode and chassis it could be the cause of the sound dying away, as a leaky capacitor here will drag the anode voltage down. As I noted earlier, I'd replace the waxie anyway!

3rd Jul 2019, 11:48 am	#12
electrogram Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hereford, UK. Posts: 719	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer If it is wired to chassis from anode (via tone control pot) and is leaky it could burn out the output transformer primary which could be difficult/expensive to replace Last edited by electrogram; 3rd Jul 2019 at 11:57 am.

3rd Jul 2019, 12:42 pm	#13
nicam49 Hexode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Wigston, Leicester, UK. Posts: 350	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Never mind the record player, how's the foot?

4th Jul 2019, 12:50 am	#14
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Thanks again. Foot is doing well, luckily, it only fell from a shelf underneath a counter, maybe 2 foot. I once went to the tip with an old tv unit, was walking over to the recycle part and a shelf slid out and caught me fair on the top of the foot. It hurt that bad I had trouble driving back home! Cheers, D

8th Jul 2019, 11:28 pm	#15
electrogram Heptode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hereford, UK. Posts: 719	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Bantam circuit, my player has a correctly wired three core mains lead. You need to be certain the amplifier chassis in your player is connected to mains neutral. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by electrogram; 8th Jul 2019 at 11:35 pm.

18th Jul 2019, 9:59 am	#17
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Finally got around to putting a new capacitor in the machine. All good and now the sound does not cut out. Irritatingly, I cannot seem to adjust the tone arm so that it allows it enough travel towards the centre of the record to enable the motor to switch off, its better than it was so I know where to adjust the two screws under the tone arm, but I seem to have run out of adjustment and its still not perfect. The motor sometimes seems to need to warm up before it reaches playing speed. It is what it is. Thanks for all the help. Cheers, D.

18th Jul 2019, 11:22 am	#18
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer It's not the position of the tonearm that signals the end of the record, but the speed with which it is moving. Make sure there is no grease on the trip mechanism; it relies on metal-to-metal friction. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

18th Jul 2019, 11:49 am	#19
TMGE666 Triode Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Posts: 16	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer Interesting. Before I adjusted it, it would only go to say 3/4 of the way through the record before it met resistance and wanted to stop. Now it goes almost all of the way through most records. I’ll have a clean up and see if it makes a difference. Thanks, D

18th Jul 2019, 2:15 pm	#20
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: E.A.R Bantam Reproducer There are some sticky topics at the head of this sub-forum with descriptions of how the velocity trip works and various specific changers. Have a read first - if you are not familiar with autochangers some of the mechanisms are not intuitive to a first inspection. Speed too low when cold indicates congealed oil / grease (or slipping idler) and like the trip mechanism should be fine after a careful clean and relube.