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Old 14th Aug 2018, 9:48 am   #1
coops375
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Default Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Hi all,

I'll be posting a number of updates over the coming weeks once I pick up the BVM 2010p I purchased.

But my first question I wanted to know is how to view 'hours run' on a BMV 2010p? I read that BVMs keep a record but given this model doesn't have an OSD I wasn't sure if it was possible.

The seller listed the TV as 'low hours' so wondered if I'd be able to check it.

I've read anything up to around 80,000 would be fine for retro gaming.

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 10:30 am   #2
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010p - Operational hours

Pro gear sometimes has a mercury capsule that shows how long the unit has run for.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 10:55 am   #3
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010p - Operational hours

Sorry I misunderstood your reply. You're saying that it potentially has a mercury capsule that shows the run time.

I'm guessing not as I've Googled and nothing shows up.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:22 am   #4
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

You will need to look up the manual on the web to see what kind of indicator is actually in your set but those capsules were quite common in the 1980s.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:49 am   #5
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

The service manual is available on-line, but I'm afraid that I can't remember where I downloaded it from, so that's not much help - sorry! It's a 40MB file, so too big to post here.

I've just skimmed it and didn't see a mention of an hours counter. I also have a paper manual for the 1410, and again, I didn't spot anything. We're about to chuck out a pair of 1410s, which breaks my heart - FOC to anyone who can collect

I have a newer BVM2015P, and I don't recall that having an hours counter either (perhaps I haven't found it yet?). I don't have a service manual for the 2015, though...

I don't recall seeing mercury timers on broadcast gear - the stuff I've seen uses LCD modules with built in batteries. The trouble with mercury counters is resetting them when you swap the video heads or CRT - do they make mercury timers with a fast reset option?

The life of a CRT depends on average picture level, so I'm not sure if a basic hours counter is all that useful in practice. If the picture is nice and sharp, then enjoy it while it lasts! Keep the contrast as low as you reasonably can to prolong the life of the CRT.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 1:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Thanks for all the info so far.

I found the service manual here: s3.amazonaws.com/retrorgb/assets/monitormanual/Sony_BVM-2010p_Operation_And_Service_Manual.pdf

But as you've said, no mention of hour counter.

The BVM is also sold as 'faulty' with intermittent power issues. It's apparently been in storage for 11 years and has 'low hours' so thought I'd take the chance and buy it.

Sold for more than I wanted £160 :0 - for a broken BVM! (not my best decision in life but it'll keep me busy for a while)

Going rate for 'faulty' ones seems to be around the £100 mark from research I've done.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 5:03 pm   #7
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Good monitors, bit of sod to repair when they go wrong due to Sony’s complex circuitry. I give you one very important tip. Change all, and I do mean all, the electrolytic capacitors on the PSU board when you get it. One in particular has a habit of going physically leaky and spilling its guts over the board which will totally ruin the pcb tracks and many adjacent components including an inductor (L4 if I remember correctly - it was a long time ago!) which you will not be able to get nowadays.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 10:56 am   #8
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Thanks again.

Any ideas which page the schematics are on?

I'm guessing they list all the capacitors so I just need write them down and order from Farnell or similar.

I pick the BVM up on Saturday so will post pictures next week. (both inside and out)

Maybe even a small video of it *powering up as people might be able to help diagnose the problem.

I currently have a jvc bm-h2000pn which seems to make popping noises when on for a while or if very warm. Looking to get rid of it.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 4:11 pm   #9
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

If you're referring to the PSU assembly (it comes out from the bottom rear of the monitor as a complete tray when you undo a couple of screws) then we would be referring to the GA board. There are about 5 or 6 multiway plugs going into the rear of PSU assembly and you have to unplug them to get the PSU assembly clear from the monitor itself - do not bother to mark up the plugs as they are all unique and will only go back into their appropriate socket so you can't mix them up when you reassemble). Page 5-76 for the schematic, 7-29 onwards for the component count.

I would simply go over the PCB with a red felt tip pen and mark them off as you manually write down each value etc. I don't recall any problems with the GB board so I'd do the GA only first.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 6:37 pm   #10
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Sooo...

I now have the BVM. It doesn't power on and smells like fish when plugged in.

Initial analysis? Looks like a blown capacitor on the PSU (see image)

Question - should BVM have a RGB card? I have two empty slots and it appears as though they should be full. Any thoughts?

****************/gmhDhe
****************/fDJm2e
****************/kfMOhe
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 8:06 pm   #11
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Hi, the two yellow Elna capacitors (100uf 25v) in your first pic have leaked. They will have corroded the board, damaging tracks, and possibly the surrounding diodes, and as mentioned previously, L4.
PSU replacement would be the best option, though i have repaired these in the past.

Regarding the hours counter, these werent introduced until the BVM-20F1E (evergreen series) in 1995. Mercury counters were used in the u-matic series vtr's in the 80's and early 90's, and lcd type (With battery) in the BVW-75 betacam sp, and others.

The CRTs on the monitors do last (unlike some of the later series).
If the monitor is clean inside, thats always a good sign. The fact that it still has these orginal yellow caps in, suggest it hasnt had much use-i was replacing these on monitors that had failed around 20 years ago !

A good tube will be punchy with good focus, and no bleeding (turn up contrast and see), the grey scale tracking will also be good.
We have have replaced these tubes in the past (after at least 70,000 hours) because they have either gone soft, or we couldnt colour balance them or they would drift. This was crucial in a grading suite, but no so much so for retro gaming !
These tubes were around £2,000 to replace, and of course, discontinued now.

Regards,
James
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 10:26 pm   #12
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

We used to fit those Mercury "elapsed time" indicators in some of our military radio equipment when I was with Plessey in the 1970's. The only way to reset them was to reverse the polarity, which reversed the direction of travel.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 1:45 am   #13
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrotechie View Post
Mercury counters were used in the u-matic series vtr's in the 80's and early 90's, and lcd type (With battery) in the BVW-75 betacam sp, and others.
Yes, that fits, as BVW75s are the oldest machines I've worked on. All the u-matics had gone from my area when I joined in the mid-'90s. I still have an hours timer from a '75 somewhere, just for nostalgia's sake


Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
The only way to reset them was to reverse the polarity, which reversed the direction of travel.
Indeed, I'm aware that reverse current does that, but the only teardowns I've seen include nothing more than resistors, so the time to reset will be the same as the time taken to get there in the first place. If they'd incorporated diodes or similar in those networks, then the reverse current (for a given applied voltage) could be stronger, and act quicker as a result? Was that ever done? Or did you just have to apply much higher voltages when resetting?

They are fascinating little things - I feel I should know more about them
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 9:01 am   #14
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrotechie View Post
Hi, the two yellow Elna capacitors (100uf 25v) in your first pic have leaked. They will have corroded the board, damaging tracks, and possibly the surrounding diodes, and as mentioned previously, L4.
PSU replacement would be the best option, though i have repaired these in the past.
Sounds like we have similar background and experience! It would be interesting to see a picture of the track side of the PCB to see how bad it 'may' be damaged.

I've previously worked on these boards, some that had burned right through and ended up have to make running repairs to the tracks (scraping back the lacquer to make new suitable soldering points, glueing capacitors in place etc). I didn't find it too difficult - just tedious - and of course prevention is better than cure. It was only in the most severe cases that we felt the need to replace the entire PCB board, I doubt they are available at any price now?

If the op was really keen, perhaps he could try the auctioneers disposing of the equipment at the ex ITV HQ in central London? I know they had a number of examples of this model.

http://www.go-dove.com/en/events?cmd...eid=eb8d87a692

Just a thought.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 2:08 pm   #15
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhennessy View Post
If they'd incorporated diodes or similar in those networks, then the reverse current (for a given applied voltage) could be stronger, and act quicker as a result? Was that ever done? Or did you just have to apply much higher voltages when resetting?
From what I remember the maximum permissible current through those devices was very low. So they couldn't be reset by running with a higher current. As has been mentioned, they can be re-used by reversing them when the dot gets to the end.

I think I have an RS datasheet for them somewhere, but it will take a while to find.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 3:01 pm   #16
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Yes, I'm sure there is an upper limit on the current you can put through these, but if that upper limit is greater than the current applied during normal operation, then that would enable you to backwards at a quicker rate - even if it took several hours to reset, that's still potentially better than waiting however many hundreds of hours it originally took.

However, this video suggests that if you allow the gap to reach an end of the capillary, then the gap might be lost forever. In which case, resetting one of these would be a boring job, to put it mildly, as someone would have to watch it carefully and stop the process when the gap gets back to "0".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxj399LuX1M

So if it turns out that resetting these isn't terribly practical after all, then that gets me back to my initial curiosity about these being used in VT machines, where you'd expect to change the heads several times over the lifespan of the machine...

I just remembered that I had a PDF copy of the service manual for the BVU-800 and checking that, it seems that the hours meter must be replaced every 1000 hours. So that's the answer, I guess. Not very satisfying, and probably easily overlooked in practice. Sony must have been delighted when they came up with the LCD equivalent
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 5:48 pm   #17
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Thanks for the feedback.

So am I missing the RGB card?

I've attached a couple of pictures. The casing shows where the capacitor clearly exploded which has now gone rusty. The seller said it was recently working which I find strange considering the rust.

I've attached a picture of the underside of the PCB which clearly shows damage. Is this fixable? A friend of the family is an electronics engineer (close to retirement now) who I was hoping could help fix the BVM, I'm happy to replace the capacitors but would struggle to fix the PCB. Any advice you have that I can pass to him would be appreciated.

I'd rather try to repair the PCB than try to obtain another PSU if at all possible.

I plugged the PSU into the power without it being connected to the BVM, this time no fish smell. Does this indicate another board problem?


****************/fO4zaz
****************/eDr1oK
****************/bxskFz
****************/kH7Vhe
****************/mLPnTK
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 6:41 pm   #18
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

RGB/YUV is standard on this model. SDI and some of the decoder options ie secam, NTSC, were optional.

It looks like the pcb is just starting to burn through. Ideally, you (or your friend) would drill out this carbonised area, (as it’s become resistive) remove the leaking capacitors and have a good clean up around that area, and you may be ok, it depends how much corrosion there is around the rectifier diodes-these may have to be removed and mounted on stand offs, (with wires jumpered onto the pcb tracks (as previously mentioned by red16v). I have done this once before & it’s time consuming. As time went by, I was able to salvage power supplies from scrap monitors with duff tubes.
I still have some, but not sure what state they are in now.

The psu will not run without a load.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 7:14 pm   #19
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by coops375 View Post
So am I missing the RGB card?
The 3rd image in post #10 that shows the lack of a BF card looks pretty conclusive to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coops375 View Post
A friend of the family is an electronics engineer (close to retirement now) who I was hoping could help fix the BVM, I'm happy to replace the capacitors but would struggle to fix the PCB. Any advice you have that I can pass to him would be appreciated.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but power supply repair is a highly specialised area of electronics. Sure, almost anyone can swap out caps - it's vitally important that they buy the correct sort and fit them correctly - but if this doesn't provide a cure, then you're into serious fault finding, which is not for the faint-hearted!

The term "electronics engineer" is so very broad that we can't necessarily assume that your friend will have the required skill-set to do this. And if he or she does have these skills, then there's little that we can say here that they won't already know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coops375 View Post
I plugged the PSU into the power without it being connected to the BVM, this time no fish smell. Does this indicate another board problem?
This most likely indicates that you haven't realised from the circuit diagram that with all the connectors removed, power won't reach the electronics contained within the PSU. The mains enters via the IEC socket and leaves after the input filtering to travel to the power switch on the front panel.

If I'm wrong about that - maybe you did spot that and plugged the appropriate connector back in? - then perhaps the lack of smell could be explained by the fact it will be running cooler without the load of the monitor. However, not all switched-mode power supplies are happy to run with no load, so you run the risk of causing more faults.

I apologise if I'm coming over as slightly negative, but you spent a large amount of money on this, and I'd really hate for you to accidentally make the current situation much worse. Monitor repair is a job for specialists - they are complex beasts that have seriously high voltages in there (apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but I can only go on what you've written so far). Please, to protect your investment, don't attempt to power it up again and hand it over to an expert as soon as you can.

Just in case it's not 100% obvious, all the above is said with the best of intentions

Good luck,

Mark
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 7:55 pm   #20
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Default Re: Sony BVM 2010P - Operational hours

My main concern (sorry to bring it up again) is if the BVM has RGB output. I've looked at the sticker/cards it has and it kinda reads as though it's missing it. However, there is a card present in the B3 slot which the sticker to the left says is for RGB. However, This has PD written on it which is a PAL Decoder from looking at the sticker. (is the RGB decoder the same as the PAL decoder?)

(I'm massively interested in this as I want to use it for RGB, if it doesn't have the card, for example if it's been taken out/sold it's no use me trying to fix. )

My friend is use to specialise in repairing TVs but it's a given that he's never worked on a BVM (it's Wakefield after all

I'll keep it unplugged and order some replacement capacitors for now..

****************/eBX2Ce (image with labels above card slots)

Also never thought it was true that it weighed 60kg. But it does!

What's best to clean it all up? 99% alcohol?
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