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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 10:39 pm   #1
Biggles
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Default Battery type numbers

I'm sure most of us have become familiar with common domestic battery sizes and type numbers over the years. e.g. AAA, AA, C, and D cells. I wonder why there never was an A or B size? There is also a gap between D and N size cells. Was the standardization a European thing when type numbers changed from U2, HP11 etc? PP3s seemed to have kept their original number but I think there is an equivalent MNxxxx sometimes referred to on equipment labels. I can't remember the predecessor of the PJ996 6V lantern battery.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 10:49 pm   #2
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

A little light reading, answers some of your questions. There is an A type listed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 11:08 pm   #3
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

"For example, British standard "U" series batteries were often sold under manufacturer prefixes such as "C", "SP", "HP", etc.; Ever Ready sold "U2" (D) batteries as "SP2" (standard-duty zinc carbon) and "HP2" (heavy duty zinc chloride)."

As I recall, the SP2 (earlier LP2 for "leakproof", then SP2 for "sealed") and high power HP2 existed alongside the standard, blue cardboard jacketed U2.

Again as I recall, 50 years ago the common lantern battery was already designated 996 in Ever Ready's range - I expect it goes back rather further than that.

Paul
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 12:42 am   #4
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Thanks for the link Frank. I never thought about looking on the web for information. A useful list. I had forgotten all about the F size cell. Paul, you've brought some memories of my childhood back. I remember that battery leakage seemed to be a big thing in those days.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 1:11 am   #5
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Battery leakage is still as bad as that even now.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 5:11 am   #6
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

If you consider the Ever Ready (UK) numbers for a moment...

For U (Unit?) cells there was U2 (=D), U7 and U12 (=AA), U11 (=C), U16 (==AAA) and at least the much less common U8, U10 and U14 (the coke-can sized one with a screw thread round the top of the can that was used on gas lighers). What about all the other numbers? What about U1, U3, U4, U5....

I seem to remember the N size cell was a D23. Why not a U<number>? Wasn't the D14 also an AA size cell?

And for AD (All Dry?) low tension batteries there was an AD4, AD28, AD35, etc but plenty of gaps in the sequence. Did the others ever exist?

Was there any logic to the numbering at all?
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 7:15 am   #7
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

It's all a bit of a mess- almost as bad as coin cell nomenclature- lack of logic, co-operation between territories and several different reference numbers for the same cell.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 7:41 am   #8
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Maybe the person who designated battery size numbers went on to work at Microsoft... Windows 1; Windows 2; Windows 3; Windows 95; Windows 98; Windows XP; Windows 2000; Windows 7; Windows 8; Windows 10. Not much logic there!

The lithium coin cell numbers do have some logic to them, CR2032 for instance is 20mm diameter, 3.2mm thick, rather than being part of a sequence starting at CR1. So if you know the CR number, you can work out the size.

The letter-designated cell types seem to generally go that as the letter moves on, the size gets bigger. So A, B, C, D etc... with A and B size not being common. Smaller than A size, it's AA, then AAA - the logic looks copied from Standard Wire Gauge logic - wire larger than 0SWG is 00SWG; then 000SWG, etc. Once you get above 1SWG, the larger the number, the smaller the wire - the SWG number is the number of drawing operations needed to reduce the diameter.

JEDEC transistor numbers are both logical and random - 2N706 for instance, the 2 before the N is one less than the number of leads (why?). Diodes are 1N; dual-gate MOSFETS are 3N; bipolar transistors, unijnction transistors, JFETs are all 2N. But the number AFTER the N is just the next in sequence from a big register as a manufacturer wanted to list a new type, so bears no relation to what it does.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 8:19 am   #9
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
And for AD (All Dry?) low tension batteries there was an AD4, AD28, AD35, etc but plenty of gaps in the sequence. Did the others ever exist?
Tony

There was an AD1, which was used in the Roberts RP4 portable.

Ron
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 9:35 am   #10
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
I seem to remember the N size cell was a D23. Why not a U<number>? Wasn't the D14 also an AA size cell?
The Wikipedia article linked above says it was. Around 1970 the Ever Ready type numbers for AA cells were HP7 for the high power version and U12/D14 (all at once, not as alternatives) in standard blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
And for AD (All Dry?) low tension batteries there was an AD4, AD28, AD35, etc but plenty of gaps in the sequence. Did the others ever exist?

Was there any logic to the numbering at all?
Well, the AD3 existed, and unlike most (or any?) of the others was a combined HT/LT type, used for instance in Roberts' P4D. Doesn't seem much chance of any recognisable logic to the allocations in view of that one!

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Old 24th Jun 2017, 9:39 am   #11
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Watch type battery numbers are a dog's breakfast too.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 10:06 am   #12
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

I'm pretty sure that the AAA/AA/C/D nomenclature was an American standard which gradually spread elsewhere. It has only been widely used in the UK for the last 20 years or so. Info on this is surprisingly difficult to find though.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 10:31 am   #13
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

In agree they have cracked it with the lithium 'coins' since the seemingly standardised nomenclature tells you the diameter and thickness.

With the chunkier button/watch cells, quite apart from being concerned with the chemistry- do you have alkaline, zinc air, silver oxide,etc, The convention to label the alkalines with AG prefixes annoys me as i interpret it as a hint to the unwary that they are (slightly superior) silver oxide.

I recently pulled a rotten orange HP2 from an old piece of equipment, it had totally covered itself in large grains of rust powder however hadn't affected any of the metal surrounding it. In perfect condition on top of the rust was a woolworths price label for 9p. I had forgotten that these were sold singly in the early seventies.

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Old 25th Jun 2017, 11:28 am   #14
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
A little light reading, answers some of your questions. There is an A type listed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

Frank
Thanks for the link Frank - very informative!

Interesting to note the information about silver oxide ‘coin cells’, (as used in digital callipers), which provide 1.55V as compared to cheaper alkaline cells at 1.5V, and that silver oxide typically 50% greater capacity and a flatter discharge rate. In the thread below about Aldi digital callipers at post #30 I’m mentioned that the ‘AG’ type alkaline cells which come on a card from Poundland et al aren’t really up to the task. The instructions for my ‘Clarke’ callipers state must be 1.55V SR44 silver oxide call, and that if all five digits flash simultaneously the battery voltage has fallen below 1.45V so the battery needs replacement. I’ve got three sets of calipers, and non work for long on AG cells so I buy Renata Swiss made silver oxide ones which last a year or so, depending on use.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=133337&page=2

Here’s a clip about silver oxide and alkaline coin cells from Wiki:

8-<

In the IEC designations, cell types with an "SR" prefix use silver oxide chemistry and provide 1.55 volts, while the "LR" prefix batteries use alkaline chemistry and provide 1.5 volts. Common alternative manufacturer's prefixes for these two types are "SG" for silver oxide and "AG" for alkaline. Since there are no "common" names beyond the AG designation, many vendors use these four designations interchangeably for the same physical sized cell.

The functional differences are that silver oxide batteries typically have 50% greater capacity than alkaline chemistry, relatively slowly declining voltage during discharge compared to alkaline types of the same size, and superior leakage resistance. The ultimate energy capacity of a silver battery may be as much as twice that of an alkaline. Also, a silver cell with a flat discharge characteristic is preferable for devices that need a steady voltage, such as photographic light meters, and devices that will not operate below a certain voltage; for example, some digital calipers, which do not work below 1.38V.

Alkaline batteries are usually cheaper than silver oxide equivalents. Inexpensive devices are sometimes supplied fitted with alkaline batteries, although they would benefit from the use of silver oxide batteries. Exhausted silver oxide cells are often recycled to recover their precious metal content, whereas depleted alkaline cells are discarded with household trash or recycled, depending on the local practices.
SR44 1.55V

8-<

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

As to obsolete batteries, the 6 Volt ‘PP8’ was used in sets such as the Roberts RT1. I guess some owners change the connections to suit 4 x AA cells, but artwork for the PP8 is available to make a nice replica to preserve the appearance. (It’s on the ‘to do’ list! )
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 11:36 am   #15
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
I'm pretty sure that the AAA/AA/C/D nomenclature was an American standard which gradually spread elsewhere. It has only been widely used in the UK for the last 20 years or so. Info on this is surprisingly difficult to find though.
AA/C/D &c are from an obsolete ANSI standard. UM1, UM2 &c are old Japanese (JIS) numbers. Continental Europe had names like Mignon and Micro.

Certainly in my youth they were usually called HP whatever even though different manufacturers used different numbers — I'm too young to remember Ux. I do recall SPxs changing from white to a blue casing though. I seem to recall that Vidor used the same figures as Ever Ready but prefixed V.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 1:33 pm   #16
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Default Re: Battery type numbers

This thread has stirred me enough to go into my loft and get down a box of batteries that I bought from "Eveready Boy" and it's full of Ever Ready batteries. In the box is are various & common Ever Ready batts, some of them show different identifications, i.e. the change in type numbers over the years.

Once I get a chance I'll list them & take photos and I'll report back
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