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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 7th Apr 2012, 5:28 pm   #21
Tractorfan
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Smile Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Hi,
Regarding the high speed audio on rewind. My mate had a Fidelity Playmaster that did just that. It had a BSR TD2 deck that didn't lift the tape away (far enough?) from the heads on rewind. As well as the audio there was also the "woooooo" of the recorded HF bias too!
Also, why do electronic time bomb mechanisms with an LED countdown display always tick?
Cheers, Pete
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 5:33 pm   #22
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

I quite like the FFWD/ REV sounds.
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 10:45 am   #23
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Listening to gabble on fast wind was, of course, a common professional practice - it helped with location of material, especially when editing - and we didn't have to pay for the heads. Ferrographs seldom, if ever, had tape lifters...
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 11:37 am   #24
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

On some reel-to-reel recorders and cassette decks with piano key controls it was possible, while fast winding, to depress the PLAY key enough to move the heads close enough to the tape to pick up some sound without disengaging fast wind. Some later models had CUE/REVIEW functionality from the PLAY mode that disengaged the pinch roller but left the heads in place during fast winding in either direction.

I recall seeing on some American TV shows, scenes in police stations where they are playing videos at fast speed accompanied by fast sound reproduction. All the VCRs I have come across have muted the sound in anything other than normal forward play mode.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 5:43 am   #25
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
On some reel-to-reel recorders and cassette decks with piano key controls it was possible, while fast winding, to depress the PLAY key enough to move the heads close enough to the tape to pick up some sound without disengaging fast wind. Some later models had CUE/REVIEW functionality from the PLAY mode that disengaged the pinch roller but left the heads in place during fast winding in either direction.
Most home recorders seemed to mute any signal from the head in the fast wind modes, but I have a couple of machines that don't, and at that speed, the tape does not actually have to be in contact with the heads to produce an audible signal. So with a bit of careful engineering, cuing could have been done without any head wear. I'm not aware of any machine that actually did it that way though.
Quote:
I recall seeing on some American TV shows, scenes in police stations where they are playing videos at fast speed accompanied by fast sound reproduction. All the VCRs I have come across have muted the sound in anything other than normal forward play mode.
In my youth we had a Nordmende (probably a re-badged JVC) video recorder. Being curious, I discovered that if you went into play mode, then held one of the fast wind buttons to get fast wind with a picture (sound muted), then held the play button whlie releasing the fast wind button, the machine would continue to fast wind with picture. If you then continued to hold play, and pressed the AUDIO DUB button (remember the days when all video recorders had the audio dub function enabling you to re-record the sound but keep the video track?), the machine would continue to fast wind with picture, but also unmute the audio and it could be heard at full volume.

I also discovered that if you did the same thing but pressed RECORD instead of AUDIO DUB, the machine would erase the sync track on the tape, effectively making it unplayable as the picture would wander in and out of sync during subsequent plays.

I never managed to figure out if these functions were intentional or not. It would seem unlikely that they were just coincidental, yet especially the second function (erasing the sync track) seemed quite worthless.

Regarding actors and recorders, I remember an acquaintance of mine telling me about a Philips EL3516 that he'd lent to a theatre who were putting on some play. He was asked to replace the springs in the push buttons as the actor who was to operate the machine was rather old and found pressing the old piano keys too much of an effort. I'm not sure whether the machine was to actually play something or it was just a prop.

Regarding the Benkson 68 in Thunderbirds, I think the machine fits its context visually very well. Looks like it was designed to fit in that control panel from the start.

Getting back to the original theme, what is the machine that makes its entrance at 1:14 in this Joe Meek documentary from 1991 (representing Joe Meek himself)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tcS91fL8jQ

Last edited by ricard; 10th Apr 2012 at 5:47 am. Reason: Added Joe Meek Arena question
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 1:02 am   #26
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Extensive thread of r2r in film and Tv here.

A couple off the top of my head: 007, man with the golden gun - must have had backing from Sony, as pretty much every monitor or reel to reel is one of theirs. Check out the start of this clip up to about 2 mins also 5:30 ish has more shots of the gear.

Alan Bleasdale's GBH - scene with a Ferrograph series 6 (?) used for illicit taping from next door hotel room! jump this to 5.30. Seems like it is being operated correctly, at least!
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 1:47 am   #27
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
On some reel-to-reel recorders and cassette decks with piano key controls it was possible, while fast winding, to depress the PLAY key enough to move the heads close enough to the tape to pick up some sound without disengaging fast wind. Some later models had CUE/REVIEW functionality from the PLAY mode that disengaged the pinch roller but left the heads in place during fast winding in either direction.
The British Clarke and Smith Talking Book machines used reel to reel tape in a special green cartridge which ran for 13 or so hours, using 6 tracks. To aid navigation in a long book, they recorded a voice along with the program, but recorded at fast wind speed, which announced chapters such as "chapter one", "chapter nine" . When you Fast Forwarded the tape, the play head remained engaged enough to replay the chapter points. The fast replay speed wasnt that accurate but it was close enough to understand the voice markers. At normal playing speed the chapter marker voice could sometimes be heard as a very low frequency rattle.
The US designed Talking Book format used a standard Philips cassette but made use of the same principle for locating chapter points. It only used subsonic tones rather than a voice though.

We used both systems here in Australia. With the US cassette machines the depth of penetration of the play head in fast wind was adjustable in service. We used to set it up so that on an average cassette, the head almost touched the tape: close enough to hear the chapter tones clearly but with a little air gap to prevent extra wear on the head.
I think the maker of the cassette deck mechanisms was the Japanese Sankyo company.

Tim
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Old 4th May 2012, 4:49 pm   #28
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Here is a scan of the TD2 user information.
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Old 4th May 2012, 6:31 pm   #29
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Thanks for that, I've never seen it either.
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Old 5th May 2012, 7:55 pm   #30
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

To expand on the somewhat minimal details regarding Joe Meek above.

Prior to becoming an RAF Radar Operator, he was an electronics (should that be electrical due to the date?) hobbyist who surprisingly could not play an instrument.

He became an audio engineer, eventually independant. From a backroom studio at home he produced dozens if not hundreds of recordings, some still unpublished. His technical ingenuity allowed him to develop and use new recording methods.
e.g. listen to The Honeycombs, John Leyton, Angela Jones by Michael Cox is a pleasant ballad. etc. etc.

The man was a music production genius, but sadly during his lifetime largely unknown to the public. When this changed (possibly immediately after his death), he would accurately be described as UK's Phil Spector. - another tortured soul.

Good Luck - Mike
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Old 5th May 2012, 9:27 pm   #31
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Radio Wrangler has got the second law of motion with those vehicles.
The first one starts "any vehicle that changes speed or direction"
And ends "no matter what surface it is on"
You can fill the middle bit in.
The third law is the one with the disappearing dents!
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Old 10th May 2012, 3:37 pm   #32
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Hi
I've just watched 'Telstar' (which was the inspiration for this thread) being interested in Meek's work. As far as I know it was a fairly accurate depiction of the latter part of his life. The most surprising thing was the involvement of so many people who knew and worked with him. He doesn't exactly come up smelling of roses, but the Meek family evidently gave it their blessing. Playing cameo rĂ´les were Chas Hodges, Clem Cattini and Jess Conrad.
Technically speaking I belive he used EMI machines which were heavily modified by both Meek and EMI engineers who didn't believe his designs for phase shifting could be done (they could). I don't know how accurate the equipment was in the film (we will overlook the 1966 GEC television in a 1961 sequence), but he did tend to use small mixer 'grey boxes' with weird and wonderful electronics inside.
I was lucky enough recently to have a chat with a couple of musicians who recorded at Holloway Road and they gave an impression of Meek as a creative genius with little social skills who was on another planet, running around, tweaking this and that to gain the sound he wanted.
To return to the Ferrograph thrown out of the window, it was a Series Five, I think, but the aftermath looks like a mock-up.
I believe Phil Spector (what is it with these two and guns?) tried to visit Meek but was refused entry in case he stole his secrets.
I'd recommend the film to anyone with an interest in Meek, but it's not an easy ride.
Glyn
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Old 10th May 2012, 10:57 pm   #33
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

As I understand now, after having found various tidbits on the 'net, the Ferrograph was actually not thrown out the window, it was pasted in later using computer animation (CGI). Whereas the machine actually was thrown, and filmed, somewhere else, or the whole throwing sequence was digitally synthesised given some static images to start with I don't know.

I think the film depicts, and I've read in other places, that Phil Spector might not have visited Holloway Road, but at least telephoned Meek, causing great uproar and the 'stop stealing my secrets' line.

I must say, after writing the initial comments in this thread, that having read up on Meek in various biographical texts on the 'net and in book form (the book 'Joe Meek's Bold Techniques' by Barry Cleveland focuses quite a bit on the equipment he used, and how he used it, as well as being biographical) I found the film much more enjoyable after watching it a second time. There are lots of references in the film that tend to pass one by unless one already knows the story, which I would say is a failing of the film, on the other hand, with some solid biographical knowledge in the mind of the viewer, the film works well as a complement.

In particular I think it's a pity the film focuses on the downfall of Meek while mostly sidestepping his early history as a what we would now call DJ, and later radar engineer in the military, then getting work in various studios finally leading up to his own little kingdom at 304 Holloway Road. When I first saw the film I was hoping for something more like 'A Beautiful Mind' with Russel Crowe (which depicts the life of mathematician John Nash and his struggle with mental health problems), but of course the ending could never have been a happy one.
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Old 14th May 2012, 1:41 pm   #34
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Hi
Looking at that sequence I tend to agree - the fate of the machine wouldn't have been uppermost in the minds of the makers but the possible effect of a heavy machine landing on an actor's head certainly would have been! The aftermath of the scene shown from the window certainly looks different.
As usual with a film like this they have to try and strike a balance between what an enthusiast might want and popular appeal. I think the film does fall down in not explaining why on earth respected musicians of the era would have been keen to work with someone such as the man depicted in the film - in some ways the film expects too much of the viewer and in others not enough.
Glyn
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Old 26th May 2012, 2:19 pm   #35
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Just been watching "The Ipcress file", with Michael Caine (well, not actually with him in person, you understand...) and for a split second or so a pair of Truvox 90s (or 100s) are seen replaying the haunting music. It's a rare indeed to see a Truvox on the big screen (or in this case a little 12" TV!)...

Barry
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Old 21st Apr 2014, 11:24 pm   #36
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Just quick note reviving this thread after watching an episode of Doctor Who yesterday, which takes place around the time of the Moon landing in 1969, in which a Uher Report, probably a 4000-L, is depicted operated by President Nixon in the Oval Office. While according to the accounts I have found (such as http://www.pimall.com/nais/pivintage...recorders.html the president actually had a Uher 5000 in his office, I was still mildly pleased by the fact that they at least got the manufacturer right, as well as a plausible machine for the time period, and also considering the more technical aspect that it actually also had the 15/16 ips speed which the White House tapes allegedly were recorded at.
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 12:51 am   #37
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Finally got round to uploading some pics from an Italian detective film on BBC4 last October.
Inspector Montalbano , Ray of light.
An Akai GX 260D { I think ? }
Thought it may be of interest.

Peter W.....Reelguy.
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 9:20 pm   #38
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Default Re: "No tape recorders were harmed during the making of this movie"

Quote:
Originally Posted by af024 View Post
Benkson 68 in Thunderbirds?
(not that it's much or a recorder .. positively horrid actually).
It can't be that bad - if I understand the context correctly, it was recording the entire radio spectrum ready for review of any emergency messages!

Wasn't the 'Mission Impossible' machine a Nagra SN?
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