UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27th Jan 2016, 12:03 am   #101
unitaudio
Heptode
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 860
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

I see what you mean about the bass, it sounds really well on my Wharfedale Dalesman speakers.

I can't believe you did that in 5 days. It'd take most people years. I know a deadline tends to focus the mind but that's going some! I'm so glad there are people who can be bothered with things like this. The enormity of the task would overwhelm most, myself included. I think "Well done to all involved" is something of an understatement.

Regards,
Paul
__________________
...No, it's not supposed to pick up the World Service, it's not a radio!
unitaudio is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 12:56 am   #102
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

The natter level on that footage is terrible, I'm disappointed that people didn't seem to be interested in listening. If they'd really understood what had gone into that performance...

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 1:33 pm   #103
Brigham
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 1,111
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

It will be very difficult to find an audience who will appreciate the work you've put into this. I took a (lady) friend along to a dance hall for the opening night of its newly-installed ex-cinema Wurlitzer. She loved the performance, but was confused when we were invited to go backstage and 'look at the organ'.
She thought the console 'just plugged in'.
Brigham is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 2:29 pm   #104
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

That was during the meal - it went suitably quiet for the main event. They weren't there just to be entertained, the focal point of the evening was the auction where some of Eloise's work and unique art experiences were up for grabs. As they were about to collectively donate a 6-figure sum, I think we can forgive them for being a little distracted.

One of the interesting points about the Miller that people latch onto when clued in, is that the console is purely a human interface device just like a PC keyboard, rather than a musical instrument. Unlike pipe organs, amongst electronic organs this format is the exception rather than the rule, although we do have some large Compton instruments with remote generator cabinets. I continue the analogy by explaining that most consoles are in principle interchangeable and all the ordinary notes would match up but the 'punctuation' would probably be in the wrong places just as when you connect a Mac keyboard to a Windows PC.

Hidden machinery is a regular theme in Eloise's work, hence the idea of putting the generator cabinet in the spotlight.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2016, 1:29 am   #105
trobbins
Heptode
 
trobbins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 898
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

Lucien, this thread makes for an exciting read - lucky you didn't need to replace a rectifier valve like your avatar!

Your thread epitomises the technical effort deployed to make commercial electronic organs when only valves were available. It took me a few years, and I'm still only 95% through a 1958 Selmer Concert - in comparison its 60 odd tuning valves are a veritable breeze - and yes it was a prime candidate for the slash and burn recyclers.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=105027
http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Selmer%20Organ.php

As an aside, I was gob-smacked to see the 807 amplifier photo - I have recently restored what appears to be exactly that item. It is a Williamson design, with the only significant change being the 807's run beam tetrode mode rather than triode. I would be keen to get your feedback on whether you think that amp was by a third party maker, or as part of the original equipment, as I could only find a few QC markings that didn't align with any manufacturer I had come across.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=109412
http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Willi...ated%20Amp.pdf

Ciao, Tim
trobbins is online now  
Old 25th Mar 2016, 4:24 pm   #106
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

Thanks for posting about this and your PM, interesting to see another of these chassis turn up as there can't be that many around. We have to assume it was supplied with an organ, because it does look like Miller made it themselves rather than buying in a unit that might have had alternative sales channels. At first glance many of the details including the inspection stamp, chassis & wiring styles and possibly some piece parts match those of the generator rack.

Your analysis dates it to 1949 based partly on Hunts codes which repeat every 10 years, and the valves which might not be original. I would suggest it could possibly be 1959; one source suggests the firm did not start manufacturing until 1950 (although that is not inconsistent with 1949 parts), and we know this chassis was still being made unchanged up to 1962-3. The circuit was rather old-fashioned by then but organ builders have historically been very conservative and tend to bring specific technologies to a state of refinement and then stick with them longer than other manufacturers. Even Compton were churning out hundreds of regulated-screen KT-based units until 1961 when they started updating to ultra-linear.

I'll take some pics of the amp innards for comparison when I am next at the store. In the meantime unfortunately we have discovered that it was impossible to remove the original speaker cabinet, being cement rendered in-situ and integrated with the building fabric. I would like to have measured and photograped it but the builders didn't warn us in time of its impending dismantling. They saved the drive units but all other details of its construction are now lost.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2016, 4:30 pm   #107
Brian R Pateman
Nonode
 
Brian R Pateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK
Posts: 2,136
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien Nunes View Post
They saved the drive units but all other details of its construction are now lost.
Might it be possible that the original architect's drawings are archived somewhere?
__________________
Brian
Brian R Pateman is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2016, 5:03 pm   #108
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

It's certainly worth investigating; I'm not very hopeful as nothing else about the organ seems to have been archived, but there might be an elevation that reveals the dimensions of the horn which is the main point of interest.

Believing that the speaker might remain intact but immovable, I had a sneaky plan to record the sound of a good performance on the organ directly from its output as it stands now in the workshop, replay it through the speaker while that remained in the church, and re-record the results complete with acoustic from a representative location within the building. This would have provided a reference for adding post-processing to emulate the sound of its original installation within the dry environment of the Electrokinetica organ showroom.

Such investigations are the icing on the cake; with all these projects one has to be grateful for an opportunity to save the machine at all. It could so easily have been reduced to a crate of valves, another of transformers and a pile of scrap metal.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2016, 12:01 am   #109
trobbins
Heptode
 
trobbins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 898
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

Thanks Lucien. Dating is always suspect when there are few clues. A likely good clue is the Partridge hand numbering, but I haven't been able to get a good handle on how and when Partridge applied those.

Were you able to hone in on a date for that Classic IV ?

Local newspapers that have been digitised can be one source of dating info. I am chasing up details on a Miller that made it from old Blighty to Botany Bay to a new church that opened in Sept 1959. The newspaper indicated the organ was somewhat special, saying its "arrival in Sydney created widespread interest there, and musicians are eager to hear it played." The organ has survived and details so far are "It has two manuals - Great and Swell with 8 stops on each. There's also a full pedalboard with 4 stops. There are 3 couplers, and a foot swell lever."

For someone new to Miller Organs, I can see some references to an elaborate unit provided to the BBC, and Norwich Organs indicate that Miller Organs went in to liquidation in mid 60's, and ceased in early 1970's, with no early records available.
trobbins is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2016, 12:59 am   #110
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

According to the date stamps and components, manufacture of this instrument was early-mid 1963, to a design that seems to date from mid 1958. The organ described in your newspaper extract is different on account of having fewer stops, but might have consisted of similar sub-assemblies.

Although I have not put much time into the search yet, information does appear to be very thin on the ground. This is not uncommon in a field where products were often built in dozens rather than hundreds or thousands, and where direct sales without a dealer network eliminated the 'cloud' distribution and storage of information that took place in the radio and TV industry for example. When a takeover or wind-up occurs, the works files that are so often dumped in the skip represent the only physical copy of the data ever created.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2016, 2:33 am   #111
trobbins
Heptode
 
trobbins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 898
Default Re: 193 valves in 5 days - rescuing the Miller Classic IV organ

Interestingly, the Miller Organ I am chasing info on did have its operating manual and maybe some other documentation retained from 1989 when the last organist in charge used it. But as can be expected, the organ went one way, and the documentation went another and then finally got binned just a few years ago in a general clean up, with the organist recalling that he thought 'no one would ever want that' !

Given that Classic IV confirmed date of 1963, and that similar 'old' stock parts were obviously still being used (the 1-2W colour and dot style resistors); along with many other same/similar parts and the uncertainty of decade for cap and valve dates, that does make for a broad span of allowable dating - although I now agree that the part dating decade is more likely to be 1950's not 1940's, and hence the amp I have would date from late 1959 onwards.
trobbins is online now  
Old 17th Aug 2018, 5:11 am   #112
Musictronics
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 1
Default Re: Miller Organs from Norwich

I love this thread. I have always been fascinated by these organs since I was for a while deputy organist at St. Georges Parish Church in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, where one of these organs was installed... before I emigrated to Australia in the early 80's. I have since worked for many years repairing electronic organs and synthesizers etc. but these old valve monsters will always have a special place in my heart.
Musictronics is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 5:33 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.