What Aerial Is This? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

HamishBoxer · 6th Oct 2015, 5:22 pm

Had this a long time note the Jones type plug but totally unsure what it is off.There is a gear underneath to allow for rotation.
Sadly not a Spitfire or Lancaster or is it??

Thank You

David

n_r_muir · 6th Oct 2015, 5:28 pm

Hi,

The Jones plug looks like it fits the R1155 DF Aerial input socket. There should be an access hole through which you can adjust the "compensation" trimmer.

Refugee · 6th Oct 2015, 5:29 pm

It looks like it has come from a direction finder.
Does the paint look original?

G6Tanuki · 6th Oct 2015, 5:34 pm

Looks like a traditional 1930s/1940s rotatable DF loop [expect it to be self resonant somewhere in the 300-500KHz Aviation-beacons band].

Without a separate 'sense' antenna, when flying-on-radionav there was a big risk of following a 'reciprocal' bearing - entirely the wrong direction!

[For further WWII-era examples search for "meaconing"]

HamishBoxer · 6th Oct 2015, 6:33 pm

All very intresting Thank You. Yes the paint is original.

Would it have been on a plane?

Herald1360 · 6th Oct 2015, 6:49 pm

The teardrop shaped base suggests yes- either on or underneath. No point in streamlining it if it's inside.

ex seismic · 6th Oct 2015, 7:35 pm

Not exactly a military colour, so possibly off a late 40s early 50s civilian airliner which would also have used the R1155.

Gordon

HamishBoxer · 6th Oct 2015, 8:20 pm

Would love to know what aircraft it was off. Don't even ask where it came from as it is long ago.

frankmcvey · 7th Oct 2015, 1:58 am

One of Theirs?

AC/HL · 7th Oct 2015, 3:22 am

Different shape, Gordon's suggestion seems the most likely so far. Lancastrian?

GMB · 7th Oct 2015, 9:53 am

It looks very similar to the Bendix MN-20E d/f loop. Maybe a later model?

(So that's USA)

If the colour is original then I think it must be post-war civilian.
Google it and you will see many pictures showing how it originally looked, but the MN-20E is not quite the same.

HamishBoxer · 7th Oct 2015, 11:10 am

This is getting more interesting. Thanks to all for your thoughts.

Guess it would not not have had a Jones plug on though if American or German? Surely must have been fitted after original use.

Seeing that German plane I was hoping that is what it had come off.

GMB · 7th Oct 2015, 12:26 pm

I think post-war you might well see a US loop aerial used with an R1155 radio.

There was a lot of surplus gear on the market and a shortage of civilian gear. R1155/T1154 was certainly used by airliners but perhaps this kind of loop was easier to fit (or obtain) than the quite large enclosed aerials used on the heavy bombers.

turretslug · 7th Oct 2015, 12:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB

I think post-war you might well see a US loop aerial used with an R1155 radio.

Quite a likely proposition, with the R1155's ingeniously compact DF section- otherwise the effective but bulky and heavy separate US "radio compasses" would be difficult to justify in the revenue-earning, space-and-weight conscious world of the civil airliner.

HamishBoxer · 7th Oct 2015, 4:04 pm

Just a couple more photos.

Sean Williams · 7th Oct 2015, 8:33 pm

http://aafradio.org/flightdeck/navigation.htm

I reckon it has been "made up" - the loop is almost certainly Bendix though.

HamishBoxer · 7th Oct 2015, 8:47 pm

Oh dear and I thought it was an original.

Thank You Sean.

ex seismic · 7th Oct 2015, 9:27 pm

Looking at a few classic 50s airliners they all seem to have enclosed loops, so my thoughts are turning to a repainted loop off, say, an ME262?

Does it appear to be imperial or metric? Might give a clue.

Gordon

G6Tanuki · 9th Oct 2015, 9:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HamishBoxer

Guess it would not not have had a Jones plug on though if American or German?

Wasn't Jones always a US company? I know that by the 1960s they had become Cinch-Jones (Cinch also being a US company).

http://www.cinch.com/products/misc-c...plugs-sockets/

Herald1360 · 9th Oct 2015, 10:51 am

Fix it on a nice wooden box containing a PIR detector and the appropriate electromechanics to make it do a there and back traverse and a couple of beeps whenever someone moves

6th Oct 2015, 5:22 pm	#1
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	What Aerial Is This? Had this a long time note the Jones type plug but totally unsure what it is off.There is a gear underneath to allow for rotation. Sadly not a Spitfire or Lancaster or is it?? Thank You David Attached Thumbnails __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

6th Oct 2015, 5:28 pm	#2
n_r_muir Hexode Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 344	Re: What Aerial Is This? Hi, The Jones plug looks like it fits the R1155 DF Aerial input socket. There should be an access hole through which you can adjust the "compensation" trimmer.

6th Oct 2015, 5:29 pm	#3
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,553	Re: What Aerial Is This? It looks like it has come from a direction finder. Does the paint look original?

6th Oct 2015, 5:34 pm	#4
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: What Aerial Is This? Looks like a traditional 1930s/1940s rotatable DF loop [expect it to be self resonant somewhere in the 300-500KHz Aviation-beacons band]. Without a separate 'sense' antenna, when flying-on-radionav there was a big risk of following a 'reciprocal' bearing - entirely the wrong direction! [For further WWII-era examples search for "meaconing"]

6th Oct 2015, 6:33 pm	#5
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: What Aerial Is This? All very intresting Thank You. Yes the paint is original. Would it have been on a plane? __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

6th Oct 2015, 6:49 pm	#6
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: What Aerial Is This? The teardrop shaped base suggests yes- either on or underneath. No point in streamlining it if it's inside. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

6th Oct 2015, 7:35 pm	#7
ex seismic Heptode Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tonbridge, Kent, UK. Posts: 686	Re: What Aerial Is This? Not exactly a military colour, so possibly off a late 40s early 50s civilian airliner which would also have used the R1155. Gordon

6th Oct 2015, 8:20 pm	#8
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: What Aerial Is This? Would love to know what aircraft it was off. Don't even ask where it came from as it is long ago. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

7th Oct 2015, 1:58 am	#9
frankmcvey Rest in Peace Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Cottesmore, East Midlands, UK. Posts: 858	Re: What Aerial Is This? One of Theirs? Attached Thumbnails

7th Oct 2015, 3:22 am	#10
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: What Aerial Is This? Different shape, Gordon's suggestion seems the most likely so far. Lancastrian?

7th Oct 2015, 9:53 am	#11
GMB Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: near Reading (and sometimes Torquay) Posts: 3,094	Re: What Aerial Is This? It looks very similar to the Bendix MN-20E d/f loop. Maybe a later model? (So that's USA) If the colour is original then I think it must be post-war civilian. Google it and you will see many pictures showing how it originally looked, but the MN-20E is not quite the same.

7th Oct 2015, 11:10 am	#12
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: What Aerial Is This? This is getting more interesting. Thanks to all for your thoughts. Guess it would not not have had a Jones plug on though if American or German? Surely must have been fitted after original use. Seeing that German plane I was hoping that is what it had come off. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

7th Oct 2015, 12:26 pm	#13
GMB Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: near Reading (and sometimes Torquay) Posts: 3,094	Re: What Aerial Is This? I think post-war you might well see a US loop aerial used with an R1155 radio. There was a lot of surplus gear on the market and a shortage of civilian gear. R1155/T1154 was certainly used by airliners but perhaps this kind of loop was easier to fit (or obtain) than the quite large enclosed aerials used on the heavy bombers.

7th Oct 2015, 4:04 pm	#15
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: What Aerial Is This? Just a couple more photos. Attached Thumbnails __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S Last edited by HamishBoxer; 7th Oct 2015 at 4:13 pm.

7th Oct 2015, 8:33 pm	#16
Sean Williams Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW Posts: 3,517	Re: What Aerial Is This? http://aafradio.org/flightdeck/navigation.htm I reckon it has been "made up" - the loop is almost certainly Bendix though. __________________ Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished

7th Oct 2015, 8:47 pm	#17
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: What Aerial Is This? Oh dear and I thought it was an original. Thank You Sean. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

7th Oct 2015, 9:27 pm	#18
ex seismic Heptode Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tonbridge, Kent, UK. Posts: 686	Re: What Aerial Is This? Looking at a few classic 50s airliners they all seem to have enclosed loops, so my thoughts are turning to a repainted loop off, say, an ME262? Does it appear to be imperial or metric? Might give a clue. Gordon

9th Oct 2015, 10:51 am	#20
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: What Aerial Is This? Fix it on a nice wooden box containing a PIR detector and the appropriate electromechanics to make it do a there and back traverse and a couple of beeps whenever someone moves __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O