BBC news feature about encouraging repairing electronic goods in Austria

[Valvepower]

Not sure where to post this, so if the Mods feel it’s better suited elsewhere, please move, or even delete it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67777814

Its a BBC News feature where the Austrian government will pay - using a Repair Bonus voucher - up to €200 ($219; £173) towards getting electronic goods repaired in trying to get people to move away from throwing away old electrical appliances - and focusing on getting things mended.

The irony is there are too few technicians and craftspeople to do it. A spokesman said "We have a problem that we don't have enough repairers"...

Terry

[Doghouse Riley]

They aren't going to encourage people to start up in the repair business, there's no money in it.


The public don't want stuff repaired, they want it replaced, it's often the cheapest option in the end. We've never had a domestic appliance repaired, we've always replaced them. But we've had replacements under guarantee.

Although I've remembered ten years ago we had the main control of a three-year-old oven replaced. But it took two weeks for the part to arrive. I'd never do that again. The oven only lasted a few more years.

[Ted Kendall]

What's wrong with the repair cafe being put on a proper basis? If the money is there, more people will be prepared to fix things. Trouble is, a change of government and you're left high and dry...

[Cobaltblue]

Please stay on topic 4 posts deleted.

Cheers

Mike T

[paulsherwin]

Most computers are scrapped because they're no longer able to run mainstream software well, or their owners have lost control of the installation and don't know what to do about it. There's a lot to be said for encouraging the use of old computers by new users, but there's no money to pay for any infrastructure. Obviously, as soon as somebody has to get a screwdriver and soldering iron out then the economics collapse for anything more than a few years old.

[Radio Wrangler]

Where it's a hardware failure, you don't just need repairers, money and time, you also need parts.

A repair business or a repair cafe needs to be at the end of a supply chain of parts. Quite often that chain doesn't exist and the 'replaced under warranty by the dealer' thing is a thin veneer disguising the complete lack of any repair infrastructure. It looks good to the customer, but once out of warranty (and maybe a bit of discretionary time for goodwill) the thing is toast once anything goes wrong.

Too many parts nowadays are custom or are programmed. Many semiconductor manufacturers won't give data to anyone other than a big manufacturer under contract.

Good on Austria, but there are still limitations.

David

[deswradio]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

A repair business or a repair cafe needs to be at the end of a supply chain of parts. Quite often that chain doesn't exist and the 'replaced under warranty by the dealer' thing is a thin veneer disguising the complete lack of any repair infrastructure. It looks good to the customer, but once out of warranty (and maybe a bit of discretionary time for goodwill) the thing is toast once anything goes wrong.
David

Exactly so. Having been involved with repair cafes for a while, I meet increasing numbers of people coming in with broken electronics who are well-aware of the "you can't get spare parts for this model any more" response, yet they really would like to get their broken device mended rather than buying a replacement. Reasons include "I know how to use it already", "I can't afford to buy a new one", "it has sentimental value" and above all "throwing it away isn't good for the planet". These people are also well-aware of the pressure to replace rather than repair and are becoming increasingly angry about it. But, of course, they do understand that a time will come when replacement is the only sensible option.

So, I was heartened to read about the Austrian scheme - at the very least it increases awareness of these issues. Maybe one day we will see a return of some sort of local repair businesses!

Best wishes
Des

[Doghouse Riley]

Originally Posted by deswradio

Exactly so. Having been involved with repair cafes for a while, I meet increasing numbers of people coming in with broken electronics who are well-aware of the "you can't get spare parts for this model any more" response, yet they really would like to get their broken device mended rather than buying a replacement. Reasons include "I know how to use it already", "I can't afford to buy a new one", "it has sentimental value" and above all "throwing it away isn't good for the planet". These people are also well-aware of the pressure to replace rather than repair and are becoming increasingly angry about it. But, of course, they do understand that a time will come when replacement is the only sensible option.

So, I was heartened to read about the Austrian scheme - at the very least it increases awareness of these issues. Maybe one day we will see a return of some sort of local repair businesses!

Best wishes
Des

Back in the sixties, a Hoover keymatic cost the equivalent of over £2,000 in today's money, (in 1963 they were 110gns).

Now you've a choice of decent washing machines for around £300. If they break down within a few years, people would rather have a new one with possibly more features than have one repaired ((ask your wife). The old one will get recycled.


I can't see the sense of throwing money at a scheme that could be better used elsewhere.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley

Back in the sixties, a Hoover keymatic cost the equivalent of over £2,000 in today's money, (in 1963 they were 110gns).

Now you've a choice of decent washing machines for around £300. If they break down within a few years, people would rather have a new one with possibly more features than have one repaired ((ask your wife). The old one will get recycled.

I can't see the sense of throwing money at a scheme that could be better used elsewhere.

Agreed!

[GrimJosef]

Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley

... I can't see the sense ...

This might help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_hierarchy

A brief quote:

The aim of the waste hierarchy is to extract the maximum practical benefits from products and to generate the minimum amount of waste. The proper application of the waste hierarchy can have several benefits. It can help prevent emissions of greenhouse gases, reduce pollutants, save energy, conserve resources, create jobs and stimulate the development of green technologies.

As it happens I am, right now, eking out as many wash cycles as I can from my 3-4 year old washing machine. The drum bearing is failing and while the parts are still available their price and the cost of the labour needed to fit them makes repair wholly uneconomic.

My wife is as grumpy about its 'early' failure as I am, but then she's a CEng so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised .

Cheers,

GJ

[kellys_eye]

Mandating the direction of consumer choice seems to be the way forward recently so I have no idea why, in the light of 'green' policies, manufacturers (and consumers) aren't being steered towards either repairable or, at the best alternative, long-lasting equipment? The Austrian way seems to be a step in the right direction.

The older I get the more I appreciate the 'buy cheap, buy twice' adage and now try to find the most reliable device.

[trh01uk]

There is already a whole repair industry out there for electronics - namely for mobile phones, tablets and computers (laptops/desktops). Just about any part seems to be available for these particular bits of electronics - not just the inevitable screens which seem to crack under the slightest strain - but also the myriad of tiny modules that make a phone tick. I note ebay has a steady stream of secondhand computers being broken down for parts, and much of that stuff is available in a couple of days.

I broke my laptop screen a month ago - a four year old Dell machine - and was surprised a replacement new part was available. It took me about an hour to replace it using Dell's excellent workshop manual, which they provide for every machine they supply.

Not sure there is a shortage or repair technicians for mobile phones - most high streets seems to feature several mobile phone shops offering repairs.


Richard

[trh01uk]

I would agree with other posters on this thread that repairs involving soldering irons are nearly always a thing of the past now. I would be extremely reluctant to start trying to solder anything on a laptop motherboard - and thought of trying to solder anything on a mobile phone module fills me with utter horror. Everything is so tiny that virtually nothing can be done without either excellent eyesight or very powerful magnifying glass and bright light. Often the screws are so tiny that they like pieces of dirt - dropping one on the floor can be fatal to the repair.

Successful repairs these days are nothing like the work undertaken by denizens of this forum - where leaded components are cut out and replaced with off-the-shelf replacements. I'm afraid electronics has moved on a very long way from days of valves etc and repairs at component level started disappearing in the 1980s.


Richard

[GMB]

When deciding whether to spend money on spare parts you must do the full calculation. Apart from the damage to the planet by junking it, you might also want to calculate the cost to your brain which will have to learn all the new annoying differences from the old model.

[PaulR]

Originally Posted by GrimJosef

As it happens I am, right now, eking out as many wash cycles as I can from my 3-4 year old washing machine. The drum bearing is failing and while the parts are still available their price and the cost of the labour needed to fit them makes repair wholly uneconomic.

My wife is as grumpy about its 'early' failure as I am, but then she's a CEng so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised .

Cheers,

GJ

I hesitate to tempt fate but our Miele washing machine is approaching 19 years old. It has never been moved out of its space in the kitchen since it was delivered (too heavy). The modern equivalent is around £650 according to an internet search. My recurring thought now is that when the inevitable happens should I try to have it repaired or replace it. Although it goes against the grain I think that the replace option is probably best.

I did get our even more ancient Creda tumble drier working recently by replacing the motor run cap but I bet that few owners would think of that

[GrimJosef]

You'd be tempting my fate as well Paul ! When the current machine started to rattle I pre-emptively bought a replacement (knowing for sure that if I didn't then the current one would fail sometime in the few days before the world shut down for Christmas). It's sitting in a spare room waiting to be installed. It's a Miele too . We live just a few miles from their UK outlet store in Abingdon so we popped in and picked up an ex-display one.

Quite by chance we also have a Creda tumble dryer. It's a Debonair Reversair which we bought when we first moved in together, in 1986. I've replaced the belt once or twice and a few months ago a thermal fuse failed, but apart from that it just runs and runs ...

Cheers,

GJ

[Tim]

Our 14” DVD combi we use in the caravan failed on our last outing , and my wife sent me out to buy a replacement. I think I am capable of fixing the old one( short circuit on the output of the PSU somewhere, diodes I think) and it won’t cost much, but SWMBO insisted that I was not to repair it and wanted it gone.
That IS frustrating!

[slidertogrid]

A friend of mine's father buys Miele washing machines from retailers that have taken them away when a new one has been installed. He sells the parts on ebay to many countries. His garage is racked out and the whole operation is very smooth. So it seems owners do want quality appliances repaired when this is possible and viable.

However there is a flip side. Our 10 year old washing machine started tripping the mains supply in November, it was when the heater switched on so I am fairly sure it was water ingress into the heating element. I thought about having a look at it but it was getting a bit noisy so I decided to buy a new one.
The new machine has a free five year guarantee, it is quieter and uses less washing liquid and conditioner, it also is supposed to use less electricity but I don't have any proof of that yet. (idos system)
If I had struggled about on my dodgy knee to repair the old machine it would have probably not been reliable for much longer. The new machine is certainly a lot smarter!
My Sony TV is well over ten years old now and is still working well but as and when it packs up I will replace it with a new one, it is a no brainer... I apply the same thinking to my laptop, printer and smart phone if they are a few years old the new model will usually be better...

Other things I will repair where possible My almost 30 year old Kenwood mixer needed a simple repair last year, I didn't see the point in replacing it as a new one would only do the same job.

A neighbour recently asked me to look at a sound bar which would no longer communicate with the bass speaker. I had a look, did a little research on line and then decided it was a waste of time. It had been assembled with a glue gun so even getting into it was difficult. He could buy a working one second hand same model on ebay for £20 so how much time was it worth spending on it?
I got out of the trade in 2000 the writing was on the wall then lots of equipment wasn't worth repairing even then...
I take my hat off to anyone giving it a go especially if they need to earn a living from it!

[DrStrangelove]

Originally Posted by PaulR

I hesitate to tempt fate but our Miele washing machine is approaching 19 years old. It has never been moved out of its space in the kitchen since it was delivered (too heavy). The modern equivalent is around £650 according to an internet search. My recurring thought now is that when the inevitable happens should I try to have it repaired or replace it. Although it goes against the grain I think that the replace option is probably best.

I did get our even more ancient Creda tumble drier working recently by replacing the motor run cap but I bet that few owners would think of that

Good luck, my Miele broke down the week after the 2 year warranty ran out.

Took 3 weeks to get it fixed.

Broke down again shortly afterwards.

Took another 3 weeks to get it repaired.

The el cheapo Logik I bought to tide me over while awaiting Miele's tender mercies cost half the price of the 8 year warranty extensions on the Miele washer & dryer.

If I'm still around after the warranties expire it'll be off to the scrapyard with them both if they fail.

Unimpressed of Neath.

I bought the Logik having become slightly irritated at washing shirts in the bath.

[Cobaltblue]

This thread has run its course.

I am sure many of us are wishing this scheme success.

Time to close the shop.

Cheers

Mike T