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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 5th Feb 2019, 7:47 pm   #1
Still hoarding
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Default Another HMV Cavendish question

Hello everyone. Please allow a quick introduction, my name is Victor and I have for some years been collecting vintage turntables, as well as many random items, hence my name here.

Some years ago I bought a Cavendish which had been rewired with a modern AC cord. I used it briefly and it has since just sat on a shelf. My question is whether the fan and light bulb should always be on with no way, apart from at its plug, to switch it off.

I have read all the threads here and saw a helpful photograph showing the wiring arrangement. Mine appears to be wired in exactly the same way.

I am able to select the fan and bulb on its own and able to select the 1k and 2k, but the bulb and fan are always on.

Many thanks in advance for any advice on this.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 2:01 am   #2
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Hi and welcome to the forum.
It is normal for the fan & bulb to stay on, the rear switches are for the elements only. The plug socket is the switch for turning off the rest.
I'm not sure why it was done this way, it's not exclusive to HMV, other manufacturers did it too.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 8:35 am   #3
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

I use my as a light only. As the front neon on mine was missing I replaced it with a switch to just control the bulb leaving the rear switch'es as they were so fan and elements can still be used if need be.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 3:59 pm   #4
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Thanks for the answers and the welcome, guys. I had the Cavendish on for an hour last night, seems to be working fine.

Good to know the light and fan are meant to stay on, I was wondering whether it had been modified for some reason or another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIXITNOW View Post
I use my as a light only. As the front neon on mine was missing I replaced it with a switch to just control the bulb leaving the rear switch'es as they were so fan and elements can still be used if need be.
Hello, not sure what you mean by missing neon, but your Cavendish looks great. Did you strip and repaint the lot? Mine has the brown Bakelite top. I was at one point going to repaint the metal work, but it looks like enamel and not in such bad condition anyway. The innards clean and the motor completely stripped and re-lubed.

At one point I had quite a large collection of vintage heaters, they were in a friend's storage container. He failed to pay his fees and all the heaters were lost.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:21 am   #5
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

You can never turn an electric portable heater entirely OFF just with the switches.
It's part of the regulations. Something must be ON when it is plugged-in.
(It was originally one of the elements, but I suppose when hot/cold fan heaters appeared, the fan was considered to serve the purpose. Seems the lamp alone wasn't enough, for obvious reasons).
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:21 am   #6
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Mine is like that, too. But I didn't know it was part of a regulation - now, no doubt, I'll be looking for a counter-example...

I hope you oiled yours on Jan 1st, as per HMV instructions?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:30 am   #7
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Hello, not sure what you mean by missing neon, but your Cavendish looks great. Did you strip and repaint the lot? Mine has the brown Bakelite top. I was at one point going to repaint the metal work, but it looks like enamel and not in such bad condition anyway. The innards clean and the motor completely stripped and re-lubed.

mine had been painted in black gloss all over this did strip off but the stripper would not touch original paint so had to be wet and dry paper to get it smooth the top was original painted but had been severely scratched, once smooth it was spray painted

on front at bottom mine should have had a neon to show it was powered this was damaged and incomplete so replace with switch to use with internal bulb (could not source correct neon to go in front still looking)
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:55 pm   #8
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
I hope you oiled yours on Jan 1st, as per HMV instructions?
Of course I did, had a reminder on my fridge and an alarm on my phone. Jokes apart, the motor was completely disassembled cleaned out and relubed when I bought it and again last month. It is very quiet considering its age.

The one thing that seems badly designed is the two screws that fix the fan to the motor's spindle. Big slot heads sticking out on one side are hardly going to balance the thing. A third hole, and some grub screws, would have definitely worked better.

FIXITNOW, I see, yours must have been an earlier or later model. There's no neon on mine, just checked.

Sad to see really nice designed items sell for peanuts these days, unfortunately the new generation only needs a phone and internet connection. Flats are so small that only the bare minimum will fit.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 9:56 pm   #9
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigham View Post
You can never turn an electric portable heater entirely OFF just with the switches.
It's part of the regulations. Something must be ON when it is plugged-in.
(It was originally one of the elements, but I suppose when hot/cold fan heaters appeared, the fan was considered to serve the purpose. Seems the lamp alone wasn't enough, for obvious reasons).
Does this rule still apply, and does it only apply to household heaters?

I have a modern (2016) light industrial 3kw portable electric fan heater which can be turned off completely by an on board switch. It is CE marked and from a well known UK supplier.

I also have a Cavendish, which is wired as above with the fan and light remaining on.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 4:37 pm   #10
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

I have one under my desk, a cheap supermarket type thing, which has a four way switch with an off position. It does have a tilt switch though, which may be allowed?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 5:48 pm   #11
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Ho ..... we had one of these when I was a kid ..... it was great for sitting on and toasting my little bum! I subsequently acquired a chrome-plated one, and [regrettably] swapped it for a fax machine [when the latter were 'new fangled' and very expensive]. At that time in my life, I couldn't afford to be a 'hoarder' !!!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 6:24 pm   #12
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin0577 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigham View Post
You can never turn an electric portable heater entirely OFF just with the switches.
It's part of the regulations. Something must be ON when it is plugged-in.
(It was originally one of the elements, but I suppose when hot/cold fan heaters appeared, the fan was considered to serve the purpose. Seems the lamp alone wasn't enough, for obvious reasons).
Does this rule still apply, and does it only apply to household heaters?

I have a modern (2016) light industrial 3kw portable electric fan heater which can be turned off completely by an on board switch. It is CE marked and from a well known UK supplier.
I have a modern-ish (say 10 years old) domestic fan heater badged 'Dimplex' that I use to heat part of my workshop. The controls will turn off the element and fan, but the neon indicator still glows unless you unplug it. Quite a good idea, I am not likely to leave it plugged in with the risk of it coming on by itself if the switch fails.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 8:16 pm   #13
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

I have a late 70's come early 80's Hoover fan heater in daily use (on at this moment in time) which has four switches on top, three for heat & one for the fan.
Personally, I find it impractical having to struggle to turn the heater off at the plug if that's the only way to kill the fan altogether.

Rick.

Last edited by AC/HL; 13th Feb 2019 at 11:31 am. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:06 pm   #14
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Does anyone know if this safety regulation still applies to new goods?
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 10:56 pm   #15
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

I have this old Phillips [its about 40 years old now]that can be switched off completely on the unit
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Old 18th Feb 2019, 1:11 pm   #16
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Re: #14 I can't imagine it still does, I have several heaters and fan/heaters from within the last 15 years which have the ability to completely switch off (Including some with a neon indicator which goes out when the main switch is off).
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Old 18th Feb 2019, 2:25 pm   #17
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigham View Post
It's part of the regulations. Something must be ON when it is plugged-in.
Which regulation is that? Does it apply only to (Fan) Heaters or to other appliances as well?
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Old 18th Feb 2019, 4:12 pm   #18
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

All my current electric heaters (<25 years old) can be switched off at the appliance, but I do recall a couple of long departed 60s fan heaters which could only be switched off completely at the mains socket. I don't know if this was a regulation or simply the manufacturer cutting corners.
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Old 18th Feb 2019, 5:06 pm   #19
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

I've just had a thought, what is the chance of these heaters being made for unswitched sockets?
The light remaining on may be a visual indication to withdraw the plug when not in use, nowadays though, sockets have their own in-built red indicator on the switch top to show it's on.
My Grandfather's house was built in 1970, it had annoying unswitched single sockets everywhere, the only way to power down is with plug withdraw.
Just a thought at least.
Rick.
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Old 19th Feb 2019, 10:29 am   #20
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Default Re: Another HMV Cavendish question

The heaters were so arranged in order to ensure that the plug was removed when the heater was not in use.
I don't know when the rule came into force, but it was clearly a safety measure.
It allowed single-pole switching to be used safely. Otherwise, a cold heater, appearing to be 'dead', could have the firebars still live to the touch, even though not glowing, depending on which way round the mains plug happens to be.
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