BBC Time Pips

[MikeM100]

I am sure this question has previously been asked here but does anyone still use the BBC Time Pips and for what purpose ?

Phones, televisions and GPS are infinitely more accurate compared to a human synchronising a watch using them.

DAB radio then makes a complete mockery of them as I witnessed the other day when I overheard two of them with differing delays from the real time.

My curiosity was prompted by a recent BBC Radio 4 programme that discussed time that I now cannot find !.

[Station X]

As an avid listener to BBC R4 on long wave I find myself looking at the nearest clock whenever I hear the time signal. Only my clockwork and quartz clocks ever require adjustment though. All the other "clocks" in PC's, mobile phones etc. look after themselves. I have what I still call a "Rugby Clock" with hands in the workshop and it's fascinating watching it adjust from GMT to BST and vice versa.

[kalee20]

Yes I still find them useful, obviously on LW (which I use in preference to FM for Radio 4) and useless on DAB.

One might as well ask, is the BT Speaking Clock service still relevant? But it is used a lot!

[Dave Moll]

If I want a speaking clock, I normally use CNet.

[AC/HL]

Is there any other use for them, apart from nostalgia? They must still be being broadcast for a reason.

[Ian - G4JQT]

I suspect they the pips are on borrowed time - forgive the pun!

Clocks used to be seen on TV, usually before the news, but TV signals distributed by modern technology again rendered their accuracy erratic, and their purpose ultimately pointless.

[paulsherwin]

They are really just used to punctuate the schedules nowadays.

That said, the time displayed by networked devices can be a lot less accurate than is often assumed. An NTP server on the internet will give a very accurate time, but devices often synch very infrequently and can drift a lot while free running. Many smartphones get their time from the GSM network rather than the internet, and network providers often don't maintain their clocks very well. I've known the clocks in smartphones to be 20 seconds out for various reasons.

[Radio Wrangler]

I'd put myself a little Morse practice oscillator together... unusually designed to give a decent sinewave and I had it connected up with a type-D key and a PP3. I had it in the lab one day and put a little speaker on it rather than the usual phones. Out of mischief I hit the key pip pip pip pip peeep. and watched all the people looking at the clocks. That sound carries amazingly and seems to be hard-wired into humanity. They then started checking the clocks against their watches.

When the BBC transmitters were on land-line feeds the latency of the time signals was predictable. I wonder how good whatever they use nowadays is? and there's the well known analogue to DAB delay.

I'd probably use MSF if I needed any accuracy

David

[G6Tanuki]

Last person I know who used the Beeb's Beeps to set clocks was my father - and he died in 1994.

Self-syncing time is pretty much everywhere these days; the computers, phones, PVRs, TVs, car- and bedside-radios and CCTV-recorder all do it automagically. Even my £19.99 indoor/outdoor weather-station sets itself.

Only things here that _don't_ self-set are the clocks on the washing-machine/cooker/microwave/central-heating - and they all only have hours:minutes displays so there's little value or benefit in setting them to a closer-than-1-minute-either-way precision anyway.

The only place I *need* accuracy-to-the-second is for the ham-radio modes which have !transmit for 30 seconds, listen for 30 seconds cycles.

[TrevorG3VLF]

I can get a TV signal from Sky and also from the local TV mast, The Sky signal beats the terrestrial signal by about a second.

[G6Tanuki]

As a sidenote, I'm sure I remember a project in one of the hobbyist-mags in the 70s or 80s which was designed to be connected to a receiver tuned to radio4; this had a narrowly-tuned audio filter feeding a detector, a Schmitt-trigger and a bunch of CMOS latches, which conspired to do things with a couple of interlinked relays.

When the first pip arrived, relay 1 pulled in, when the long pip happened relay 1 was released and relay 2 blipped. The idea being that it would be connected to an analog clock to provide an hourly 'resync'.

[MikeM100]

Most interesting replies - thank you all. I might now ask what were they used for

Does anyone know anyone at the BBC who might give an authoritative answer ?

The 'pips' are given great reverence everyday on Radio 4 ! Presenters are in great fear of 'crashing the pips'. Does it really matter anymore ?

[Viewmaster]

How long ago did the extended last 6th pip start?

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Viewmaster

How long ago did the extended last 6th pip start?

I'm not sure.

[Sidenote]: in the 70s and 80s (possibly later too) some European broadcasters didnn't have the extended-last-pip - their last-pip was the same duration as all the rest, but its frequency was shifted-up significantly.

Pip-Pip-Pip-Pip-Peep!

I use them to stop and listen to the news.

[DangerMan]

The extended last pip started in 1972, at the same time that leap seconds (and their occasional seventh pip) were incorporated into our timekeeping.

Pete

[M0FYA Andy]

I leave the radio in my kitchen on Radio 4 on FM, and regularly check and correct my wristwatch - it's a mechanical one and tends to gain a minute or say daily, which I believe indicates it should be cleaned, which hasn't been done in the 40 years or so I've worn it!

Andy

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy

I it's a mechanical one and tends to gain a minute or say daily, which I believe indicates it should be cleaned, which hasn't been done in the 40 years or so I've worn it!

Try leaving your watch standing on its edge, crown-up, of a night, and see if that makes a difference. Or do the same crown-down if it gains more.

It works with my Seiko 5. (apologies for lack of pippage in this post).

[M0FYA Andy]

My watch is also a Seiko, the type with a window in the back so the mechanism is visible. I never take it off other than when washing/showering.

Andy

[bikerhifinut]

At the risk of a bit of pedantry, would a "Rugby" time signal based clock not now be an "Anthorn" one since the time signal transmission was moved?

A.