Garrard SP25 out of sync - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

wireful3 · 30th Dec 2014, 8:50 pm

Could anyone give me advice about this deck? It seems to be completely out of control.
The only thing that happens is that the platter rotates when in the manual mode. The tone arm does not go to the centre and when moved by hand to the usual run-off position does not pick up and park itself. The auto mode just does nothing.

There seems to be nothing obviously amiss underneath but the large cam wheel on the top of the deck is seized to it's spindle. The slider on it is also very stiff. I hope that if I can get the cam wheel off I will see lots of dried grease causing the problem but so far I have not been able to move it. It can be rotated by hand but it is only because the spindle now rotates in the base plate. With the retaining e clip removed fairly robust pulling does not move it at all. The gear looks suspiciously as though it is cast in "Mickey Mouse" alloy so I am reluctant to use force and even heat without advice. I know this alloy does strange things with age and it can even disintegrate completely. Can anyone reassure me it is cast in sensible material and also advise me how to get it off.

I have no real idea how this part should work so I might be looking in the wrong place anyway. Even so I feel it would be a good idea to clean any dry grease from it. I have Garrard service data that has a comprehensive exploded diagram and everything except the cam wheel seems to be covered in fine detail

I am entering unknown territory but it is in a Hacker table top radiogram, as I collect Hackers I can't resist it.

Many thanks in hope.

Nuvistor · 30th Dec 2014, 9:18 pm

Have you tried warming the large cog wheel bearing with a hairdryer to soften the grease which will have gone hard and stop it being removed, It seems a common problem.

Frank

wireful3 · 30th Dec 2014, 10:13 pm

Apologies for starting it in the wrong place. Frank, I had not thought of warming the grease in situ so I will try that first. I think it is so tight on the spindle that it will not release the gear wheel but I may be lucky. It may however clear the grease that is stopping the mechanism working even if it does not release the wheel.

Nickthedentist · 30th Dec 2014, 10:22 pm

There are literally hundreds of threads about these autochangers on the forum, e.g. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=97239

Be careful not to pull the spindle off the deck when trying to remove the cam. Penetrating oil, patience and heat are all you need. You will have to re-fix the spindle somehow if it now rotates. Araldite underneath may work.

The "slider" is known as the trip pawl, by the way.

The cam is made of some alloy which is fairly strong. I've never seen one break.

And the nice thing about these Garrards is that the entire decks are interchangeable and you can always pick up another cheaply if you're unlucky with yours.

Nice machines, these Serenades. I'm listening to Radio 3 on mine as I type this

Michael Maurice · 30th Dec 2014, 10:32 pm

Do not try and rotate the cam until you have got it off, cleaned and relubricated it.

If you do, the 'spindle' will start to rotate on the deck, loosening it and soon rendering the deck useless.

It will come off with heat, I heat it up till it gets hot with a hairdryer then get two large flat bladed screwdrivers underneath to ease it off.

Nickthedentist · 30th Dec 2014, 10:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

If you do, the 'spindle' will start to rotate on the deck, loosening it and soon rendering the deck useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireful3

...the spindle now rotates in the base plate.

Too late, I fear, but I don't think the results are quite as terminal as you suggest

Our resident Garrard expert GP49000 suggested that these can be staked back, I think.

kirstyd · 30th Dec 2014, 11:17 pm

Try putting a hot soldering iron onto the spindle while gently pulling the cog it always works for me

wireful3 · 31st Dec 2014, 9:14 am

Thanks to everyone for the encouraging comments. I will try heat and patience, it may be a bit too late as the gear spindle rotates freely but still seems firm. If heat gets it off I might be able to salvage things with Araldite. If all else fails then it is reassuring to know the deck could be replaced with a similar Garrard.

I can appreciate your comments about the performance Nick, the radio section is actually working and is very good, so it will be worth the effort.

wireful3 · 31st Dec 2014, 7:52 pm

Just to tidy things up, I took the advice and applied heat from a hot air gun. The cam gear came off without any drama. It is amazing how the grease had originally been so tight that the wheel and spindle seemed to be welded together. The trip pawl needed a bit more heat but came free also.

Mods I think the thread can now be closed and once again thank you to all.

30th Dec 2014, 8:50 pm	#1
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Garrard SP25 out of sync Could anyone give me advice about this deck? It seems to be completely out of control. The only thing that happens is that the platter rotates when in the manual mode. The tone arm does not go to the centre and when moved by hand to the usual run-off position does not pick up and park itself. The auto mode just does nothing. There seems to be nothing obviously amiss underneath but the large cam wheel on the top of the deck is seized to it's spindle. The slider on it is also very stiff. I hope that if I can get the cam wheel off I will see lots of dried grease causing the problem but so far I have not been able to move it. It can be rotated by hand but it is only because the spindle now rotates in the base plate. With the retaining e clip removed fairly robust pulling does not move it at all. The gear looks suspiciously as though it is cast in "Mickey Mouse" alloy so I am reluctant to use force and even heat without advice. I know this alloy does strange things with age and it can even disintegrate completely. Can anyone reassure me it is cast in sensible material and also advise me how to get it off. I have no real idea how this part should work so I might be looking in the wrong place anyway. Even so I feel it would be a good idea to clean any dry grease from it. I have Garrard service data that has a comprehensive exploded diagram and everything except the cam wheel seems to be covered in fine detail I am entering unknown territory but it is in a Hacker table top radiogram, as I collect Hackers I can't resist it. Many thanks in hope.

30th Dec 2014, 9:18 pm	#2
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,433	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Have you tried warming the large cog wheel bearing with a hairdryer to soften the grease which will have gone hard and stop it being removed, It seems a common problem. Frank Last edited by Station X; 30th Dec 2014 at 9:29 pm. Reason: Thread moved to correct section.

30th Dec 2014, 10:13 pm	#3
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Apologies for starting it in the wrong place. Frank, I had not thought of warming the grease in situ so I will try that first. I think it is so tight on the spindle that it will not release the gear wheel but I may be lucky. It may however clear the grease that is stopping the mechanism working even if it does not release the wheel.

30th Dec 2014, 10:22 pm	#4
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,864	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync There are literally hundreds of threads about these autochangers on the forum, e.g. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=97239 Be careful not to pull the spindle off the deck when trying to remove the cam. Penetrating oil, patience and heat are all you need. You will have to re-fix the spindle somehow if it now rotates. Araldite underneath may work. The "slider" is known as the trip pawl, by the way. The cam is made of some alloy which is fairly strong. I've never seen one break. And the nice thing about these Garrards is that the entire decks are interchangeable and you can always pick up another cheaply if you're unlucky with yours. Nice machines, these Serenades. I'm listening to Radio 3 on mine as I type this Last edited by Nickthedentist; 30th Dec 2014 at 10:44 pm.

30th Dec 2014, 10:32 pm	#5
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,225	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Do not try and rotate the cam until you have got it off, cleaned and relubricated it. If you do, the 'spindle' will start to rotate on the deck, loosening it and soon rendering the deck useless. It will come off with heat, I heat it up till it gets hot with a hairdryer then get two large flat bladed screwdrivers underneath to ease it off. __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

30th Dec 2014, 11:17 pm	#7
kirstyd Heptode Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 902	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Try putting a hot soldering iron onto the spindle while gently pulling the cog it always works for me

31st Dec 2014, 9:14 am	#8
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Thanks to everyone for the encouraging comments. I will try heat and patience, it may be a bit too late as the gear spindle rotates freely but still seems firm. If heat gets it off I might be able to salvage things with Araldite. If all else fails then it is reassuring to know the deck could be replaced with a similar Garrard. I can appreciate your comments about the performance Nick, the radio section is actually working and is very good, so it will be worth the effort.

31st Dec 2014, 7:52 pm	#9
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: Garrard SP25 out of sync Just to tidy things up, I took the advice and applied heat from a hot air gun. The cam gear came off without any drama. It is amazing how the grease had originally been so tight that the wheel and spindle seemed to be welded together. The trip pawl needed a bit more heat but came free also. Mods I think the thread can now be closed and once again thank you to all.