UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment

Notices

Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27th Jun 2020, 2:40 pm   #1
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

I have been doing some research into what equipment would be suitable for 'visually' aligning FM radios and have decided to put together a list to help those who are thinking about obtaining such equipment.

The focus of this list is primarily focused on equipment that has an internal sweep/wobbulator function for FM IFs. Even better if they can also sweep AM IFs!

The list should not be considered comprehensive. The equipment below is what I have found mentioned in this forum over the years.

If you have anything to add (information, new models, service date etc.) please let me know!

To be researched: Telonic 1204a, 1234a, 1205a. Wavetek 2000, 2001. I'm not sure if these are suitable for RF applications.


AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Philips PM5324 (1973):

• AM/FM signal generator plus sweep function.
• Sweep function covers a variety of AM/FM IF frequencies.
• 100KHz – 110MHz range.
• No internal marker facility.
• Service manual available.
• Solid state (integrated circuits and transistors).
• 5 Kg.

Philips PM5326 (1979):

• AM/FM signal generator plus sweep function.
• Sweep function covers a variety of AM/FM IF frequencies.
• 100KHz – 125MHz range.
• Internal marker facility.
• LED display.
• Service manual available.
• Solid state (integrated circuits and transistors).
• 6.5 Kg

HP8601A (1980):

• AM/FM signal generator plus sweep function.
• Sweep function covers a variety of AM/FM IF frequencies.
• 100KHz – 110MHz range.
• No marker facility
• Service manual available.
• Solid state (integrated circuits and transistors).
• 9.5 Kg


Marconi TF2008 (1972):

• AM/FM signal generator plus sweep function.
• Sweep function covers a variety of AM/FM IF frequencies.
• 10KHz – 510MHz range.
• Internal marker facility.
• Service manual available.
• Solid state (integrated circuits and transistors).
• 21 Kg (!)


Taylor 62A MkII (Late 1960’s):

• AM/FM signal generator plus sweep function.
• Sweep function covers a variety of AM/FM IF frequencies. (Might just sweep FM only? Output too high to cover AM IF.)
• 4MHz – 120MHz range.
• No marker facility.
• Service manual available.
• Uses three valves and a solid state rectifier.
• 9.5 Kg


Taylor 62A MkI (1960):

• Not a great deal known. Possibly very similar to the MkII?

Advance 63a (date unknown):

• AM/FM signal generator plus FM sweep function.
• 7.5MHz – 230MHz range.
• Not a great deal known.
• No service manual available.
• No marker facility.
• Valve based.
• Not to be confused with the ‘Advanced 63’, which is similar to the ‘63a’ but does not have a sweep function.

Advance SG63E & SG63F (1968):

• AM/FM signal generator plus FM sweep function.
• 4MHz – 230MHz range.
• Both models are electrically similar.
• Service manual available.
• Hybrid design. One valve and one transistor plus various diodes.
• 12.2 Kg
Attached Files
File Type: odt Sweep Generators.odt (17.7 KB, 121 views)
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 5:50 pm   #2
Boulevardier
Octode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 1,642
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Might be useful to include the Marconi TF 995A and TF 995B generators. There are still a few around and in use (I've got a TF 995B/2 myself). I know there are people on here who know quite a bit about them (not me, I hasten to add - though I do have some manuals).

Mike
Boulevardier is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 6:29 pm   #3
frankmcvey
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cottesmore, East Midlands, UK.
Posts: 858
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

There's also the fairly famous Raymond Haigh design from Radio Bygones discussed in this thread..

Cheers,

Frank
frankmcvey is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 8:34 pm   #4
tony brady
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Peacehaven, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 278
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

I'd like to add the Radiometer Re101, I have 2 of these the second of which was rather a bargain. AM/FM with internal or external modulation plus sweep. LED frequency readout.

the service manual is also available but too big to attach here
tony brady is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 8:54 pm   #5
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,385
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Marconi's TF2002 signal generators can be electronically swept by an external source (e.g. oscilloscope timebase) over a limited range on their higher frequency bands (100kHz-72MHz -A version, 32kHz-88MHz -B version). The manual concedes that they can be swept over a somewhat wider range on their 100kHz-320kHz and 320kHz-1MHz bands (i.e. the common IF range for many radios) with reduced linearity, so that a reasonable spread of IF spectrum can be displayed ranging from 5kHz at 100kHz to 90kHz at 1MHz. The manual gives details of a straightforward external interface to the DC-coupled shift circuitry.

Not quite the plug'n'play convenience of a dedicated internally-swept machine, but a potentially useful additional feature.

Note that any version of this bulky and heavy device is 40-55 years old by now and may well have several faults- if you find working through a succession of finicky-to-sort problems satisfying, then fair enough!
turretslug is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:06 pm   #6
MotorBikeLes
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kirk Michael, Isle of Man
Posts: 2,346
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

There were professional wobulators built for TV work (manufacturer use) made by Samwell and Hutton (I had two years ago) and I guess they did an FM one as well. Big, monstrous devices, built in CRTs etc..
Actually I want a wobulator for FM, and was offered two here some months ago, but I concluded they were too big for the available space, so I had to back out.
Is there nothing available for VHF/FM in "modern" size and construction?
Les.
MotorBikeLes is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 9:26 am   #7
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

The HP8601A is quite small.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 5:52 pm   #8
stuarth
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Heysham, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 665
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

The Philips PM5324 is roughly a 28 x 28cm footprint 18cm high.

Stuart
stuarth is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 6:28 pm   #9
Ambientnoise
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Marlborough, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 915
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

For a one-off job and not wanting another instrument, I ended up building a wobulator to check FM radios using an arduino board with a dds add-on. Surprisingly straightforward to do, even for an Arduino novice and a good lockdown project. Very easy to change parameters except amplitude but no nice screening etc (a biscuit tin worked well enough).. Of course you have the hardware at the end to reuse on something else.

Ken
Ambientnoise is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 7:23 pm   #10
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Thanks for the additional pointers. The Radiometer RE101 has been added to the list. It looks to be an excellent piece of kit! Does anybody know where I could find one?

At the moment I will stick to gear that has a built in sweep facility. I would like to also compile a list of standalone signal generators.

Does anybody know what sweepers were in common use in the servicing trade throughout the 1950's - 1990's? Service manuals never suggest suitable equipment.

Last edited by OldTechFan96; 28th Jun 2020 at 7:35 pm.
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 8:30 pm   #11
factory
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,706
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

The HP 8601A dates back to at least 1969, not sure when it was discontinued but I have seen one with a 1982 date code. The 8600A digital marker could be used with it too, only problem is there doesn't seem to many around.

David
factory is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:07 am   #12
Chris55000
Nonode
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walsall Wood, Aldridge, Walsall, UK.
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Hi!

I'm fairly sure the Heathkit HFW–1 is suitable for FM alignment work, but prices on these are starting to reach "Heathkit–foolery" levels, and also, every one I've seen has been made with the dreaded brown and black Hunts capacitors!

There's a full assembly manual online but it is very, very faint, so you do need good eyes to read it!

Do be careful with the tags and wiring to the proprietory Heathkit controlled main Inductor (they called it an "Incredi–ductor(!)") – if you have to repair one of these units, the leadout wires are very, very fragile!

Chris Williams
__________________
It's an enigma, that's what it is! This thing's not fixed because it doesn't want to be fixed!
Chris55000 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:31 am   #13
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Thanks for the heads up about the Heathkit HFW–1, I'll look into it soon.

I agree about the prices such Heathkit (and other makes) go for online. Could anybody hazard a guess as to why this is?
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 8:55 am   #14
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

There was a network analyser (to 110MHz) built around the HP 8601A sweeper and a lot of 8601s went into these systems, but the 8601 was a useful little generator with a comprehensive output attenuator and could do AM and FM so it lived on well beyond the other boxes of the network analyser.

They got used in HP's factory test systems as a lower cost signal source. Plenty sold in the US, but not that many over here, so they're fairly uncommon on the UK market.

Worth grabbing one if you see one at a sensible price.

THey use a wide-range pulse-count frequency discriminator in a feedback loop to linearise the tuning. The tuning knob runs a gearbox into a ten-turn pot.

THey're not the ultimate in frequency stability, nor in phase noise, but they are quick and useful.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 9:28 pm   #15
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

I have looked into the Heathkit HFW–1 and I think it is suitable for FM alignment.

The HP and Marconi gear really suits the bill. My concern would be repair-ability and whether it uses hard to find proprietary parts.
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 1:24 pm   #16
loulou31
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 62
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Hi ,

For the HP8601A ,except for RF output amplifier IC, others are mainly standard components or easy to replace by equivalent.
This my preferred generation of HP equipment because is quite easy to repair : good documentation, reliable, easy access to components, large community on Internet using and repairing it,no software, if required specific components possible to buy ( some time a little expensive...), and when we repair it is very interesting to understand the design with elementary functions.
HP generation before was using tubes, and after less reliable ( depending on series) and to much SW and specific ICs.

Jean-Louis
loulou31 is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 5:36 pm   #17
Freya
Octode
 
Freya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Just for info, both versions of the 62A do sweep & CW and sweep & AM

sorry for quality, not my scans
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	62a.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	210108   Click image for larger version

Name:	62a.png
Views:	65
Size:	44.0 KB
ID:	210109  
__________________
Stephen
_________"It`s only an old telly" ___
Freya is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 9:32 pm   #18
The General
Hexode
 
The General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 329
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Another vote for the HP8601A, easy to use apart from being a little difficult to set the exact frequency with the 10 turn crank unless you parallel the output with a frequency counter. There is an aux output you can use for this. No software so it's fixable at home. Someone is reproducing the output amplifier module, I forget who but they were findable on Google.
Mark
The General is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 9:51 pm   #19
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
Just for info, both versions of the 62A do sweep & CW and sweep & AM

sorry for quality, not my scans
Would it be safe to assume that the only major difference between the Taylor 62A MK I and II is the case styling?

It is a shame they don't cover the MW/LW bands as they would be a handy AM+FM sweeper and signal generator.
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Old 3rd Jul 2020, 2:20 pm   #20
OldTechFan96
Octode
 
OldTechFan96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,177
Default Re: AM/FM Signal Generators With Sweep (Wobbulator) Function

Advanced 63:

Looking at the manual supplied by WaveyDipole, I have came to the conclusion that the Advanced 63 has an in built FM sweeper and therefore can be used for FM alignment.

The sweep output comes from a socket marked 'FM2'.

The 63A must be a minor revision of the 63.
OldTechFan96 is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:04 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.