Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

sobell1980 · 22nd Feb 2018, 9:18 pm

Hello all.
A chap I work with has asked me to take a look at his record player that's making a strange noise. Something this modern I don't normally take an interest in. I prefer valve kit. However he is a good friend and is at his witts end with it so I agreed to take a look. No money is exchanging hands its just to help a work collegue out who I think has been stung getting into the vinyl revival. I asked him to send me a video of the fault, I have attached a link to you tube. I have not received it for repair yet but was wondering if this is a common known issue on these decks or some general pointers. The horrid grating noise does not alter the speed of the record being played but to me sounds like something jamming.
https://youtu.be/60TeD_l6FyM
Many thanks
Regards
Dave

ukcol · 22nd Feb 2018, 9:42 pm

Perhaps the transit screws are still done up tight? The noise comes and goes at turntable speed so the turntable is fouling something and transit screws are the first thing to check.

GP49000 · 25th Feb 2018, 8:05 am

First thing I'd do is to remove the platter and see if something has fallen in and lodged underneath it.

sobell1980 · 26th Feb 2018, 8:46 pm

I finally received the record player today. Removal of the platter and belt revealed a very noisy motor. Also the 33 and 45rpm speed switch is intermittent. I ran the motor just by itself and it's obviously this as nothing else was being driven. I downloaded the service data for this and looked up the part number SFMHZ15R01E. The motor is now obsolete and I can't find any non genuine equivalents. Is any body able to help source a motor? I probably should now post in the wanted section. Apologies if any rules have been broken.
Many thanks
Dave.

ukcol · 26th Feb 2018, 9:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcol

The noise comes and goes at turntable speed........

That's interesting, I'm very surprised to hear that the noise is coming from the motor. Perhaps the load on the motor is varying at turntable speed due to a tight TT bearing or a very poor belt and thus causing the misleading symptom above?

If you cannot get a motor perhaps the faulty one is repairable.

sobell1980 · 26th Feb 2018, 9:26 pm

Here is a video link to the motor running on it's own.
If you put the slightest tension on it with my finger just feathering on the edge of the pulley the noise disappears.
Surely though the motor should not be this noisy by itself?
I've repaired many older record players and they are silent.
https://youtu.be/KAQwhodPZEs
Dave.

PJL · 26th Feb 2018, 9:44 pm

I am inclined to agree with Colin. The video shows the noise occurring once per record revolution but this is a belt drive so the motor will revolve much faster. Could be more than one fault, try spinning the platter with the belt removed.

dazaaa1 · 26th Feb 2018, 9:46 pm

I have repaired 20/30 similar technics decks. The majority have that motor noise when no belt is attached and I highly doubt the scraping noise is from the motor. Have you checked the platter isn't rubbing on the plinth somewhere? I just got one that had taken a knock and the spindle was bent ever so slightly so the platter would catch on the plinth exactly like in the first video. I was able to simply push the spindle in the other direction and it no longer caught on the plinth.

PJL · 26th Feb 2018, 9:51 pm

The noisy motor sounds bad but this deck has electronic speed control so maybe it's not happy without a load.

sobell1980 · 26th Feb 2018, 10:23 pm

Perhaps the belt is so worn it's offering the motor no load at a certain point on it's revolution . There is nothing catching the platter. In the first video what you can hear is the same noise as the last video but with the motor driving the belt. I think that the belt is giving a no load situation to the motor

dazaaa1 · 26th Feb 2018, 10:25 pm

In which case you could try and boil the belt for a few minutes so it shrinks and see if the noise goes away?

PJL · 26th Feb 2018, 10:55 pm

Might be a speed controller fault.

McMurdo · 26th Feb 2018, 11:55 pm

sounds like a speed control fault. I would say it's either reacting to an abnormal load, or else the control loop is somehow going unstable. Any chance there's a poor capacitor or similar?

sobell1980 · 27th Feb 2018, 6:11 am

The speed of the record though remains unchanged when played. I can get the 45 rpm to work by fiddling with the speed setting switch which I believe to be a sepearate fault.
I think the belt is is not slipping but has become slack enough to offer not enough load on the motor causing it to 'float' and cause this 'normal' Motor noise. A previous post confirms this motor sounds normal when run with no load on like this.
Many thanks for your replies.
Dave.

Nickthedentist · 27th Feb 2018, 9:01 am

Hi Dave,

Have you tried a single drop of oil on the top bearing of the motor's spindle, applied with a jeweller's screwdriver or similar?

A dry motor bearing sometimes sounds like this but will go quiet when its loaded.

CPC do (did?) a range of generic turntable drive belts, sold by diameter and height in mm.

Nick.

sobell1980 · 27th Feb 2018, 3:57 pm

I will have a fettle with it this evening. So are we all agreed the motor should not be making this much noise under a no load condition? In my experience of engineering a bearing noisy in no load condition would be considerably worse in a loaded condition. However this seems the other way around?
Dave.

Nickthedentist · 27th Feb 2018, 4:14 pm

Yes, I've often seen high-mileage cassette deck motors which squeal loudly off-load but which are quiet when doing their job.

Run the motor unloaded, then apply a finger lightly to the pulley to apply some load and see if there's a noticeable difference.

boxdoctor · 27th Feb 2018, 4:16 pm

In my experience just about all of this type of Matsushita motors make this noise when running free. I believe its the elecronic governor "hunting" due to lack of a load. I find all of these motors seem to benefit greatly by a drop of oil on the top bearing especially at this age, as per Nick the Dentist post#15.
I would think that the graunching noise is the turntable catching on the deck. It may be warped, or the shaft bent. ISTR there is not much clearance between them, even when everything is properly aligned. Tony.

Nickthedentist · 27th Feb 2018, 4:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxdoctor

I would think that the graunching noise is the turntable catching on the deck. It may be warped, or the shaft bent. ISTR there is not much clearance between them, even when everything is properly aligned. Tony.

If this is true - which everyone initially thought it was - removing the belt and spinning the platter by hand (with the motor un-powered) should replicate the symptoms in the first video.

dazaaa1 · 27th Feb 2018, 5:30 pm

Just remembered one other thing from repairing these tables. The plastic gear under the platter that goes around the spindle usually cracks, resulting in a noisy or totally non functional auto return mechanism. Take a look, it could just be catching on something, in which case you simply pop the gear off and superglue it back together making sure the teeth are free from any glue so it meshes correctly.

22nd Feb 2018, 9:42 pm	#2
ukcol Rest in Peace Join Date: May 2003 Location: Harlaxton, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 3,944	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Perhaps the transit screws are still done up tight? The noise comes and goes at turntable speed so the turntable is fouling something and transit screws are the first thing to check.

25th Feb 2018, 8:05 am	#3
GP49000 Hexode Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sonoma County, California, USA. Posts: 405	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. First thing I'd do is to remove the platter and see if something has fallen in and lodged underneath it.

26th Feb 2018, 8:46 pm	#4
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. I finally received the record player today. Removal of the platter and belt revealed a very noisy motor. Also the 33 and 45rpm speed switch is intermittent. I ran the motor just by itself and it's obviously this as nothing else was being driven. I downloaded the service data for this and looked up the part number SFMHZ15R01E. The motor is now obsolete and I can't find any non genuine equivalents. Is any body able to help source a motor? I probably should now post in the wanted section. Apologies if any rules have been broken. Many thanks Dave.

26th Feb 2018, 9:26 pm	#6
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Here is a video link to the motor running on it's own. If you put the slightest tension on it with my finger just feathering on the edge of the pulley the noise disappears. Surely though the motor should not be this noisy by itself? I've repaired many older record players and they are silent. https://youtu.be/KAQwhodPZEs Dave.

26th Feb 2018, 9:44 pm	#7
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. I am inclined to agree with Colin. The video shows the noise occurring once per record revolution but this is a belt drive so the motor will revolve much faster. Could be more than one fault, try spinning the platter with the belt removed.

22nd Feb 2018, 9:18 pm	#1
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Hello all. A chap I work with has asked me to take a look at his record player that's making a strange noise. Something this modern I don't normally take an interest in. I prefer valve kit. However he is a good friend and is at his witts end with it so I agreed to take a look. No money is exchanging hands its just to help a work collegue out who I think has been stung getting into the vinyl revival. I asked him to send me a video of the fault, I have attached a link to you tube. I have not received it for repair yet but was wondering if this is a common known issue on these decks or some general pointers. The horrid grating noise does not alter the speed of the record being played but to me sounds like something jamming. https://youtu.be/60TeD_l6FyM Many thanks Regards Dave

26th Feb 2018, 9:46 pm	#8
dazaaa1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 43	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. I have repaired 20/30 similar technics decks. The majority have that motor noise when no belt is attached and I highly doubt the scraping noise is from the motor. Have you checked the platter isn't rubbing on the plinth somewhere? I just got one that had taken a knock and the spindle was bent ever so slightly so the platter would catch on the plinth exactly like in the first video. I was able to simply push the spindle in the other direction and it no longer caught on the plinth.

26th Feb 2018, 9:51 pm	#9
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. The noisy motor sounds bad but this deck has electronic speed control so maybe it's not happy without a load.

26th Feb 2018, 10:23 pm	#10
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Perhaps the belt is so worn it's offering the motor no load at a certain point on it's revolution . There is nothing catching the platter. In the first video what you can hear is the same noise as the last video but with the motor driving the belt. I think that the belt is giving a no load situation to the motor

26th Feb 2018, 10:25 pm	#11
dazaaa1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 43	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. In which case you could try and boil the belt for a few minutes so it shrinks and see if the noise goes away?

26th Feb 2018, 10:55 pm	#12
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Might be a speed controller fault.

26th Feb 2018, 11:55 pm	#13
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,269	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. sounds like a speed control fault. I would say it's either reacting to an abnormal load, or else the control loop is somehow going unstable. Any chance there's a poor capacitor or similar? __________________ Kevin

27th Feb 2018, 6:11 am	#14
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. The speed of the record though remains unchanged when played. I can get the 45 rpm to work by fiddling with the speed setting switch which I believe to be a sepearate fault. I think the belt is is not slipping but has become slack enough to offer not enough load on the motor causing it to 'float' and cause this 'normal' Motor noise. A previous post confirms this motor sounds normal when run with no load on like this. Many thanks for your replies. Dave.

27th Feb 2018, 9:01 am	#15
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,839	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Hi Dave, Have you tried a single drop of oil on the top bearing of the motor's spindle, applied with a jeweller's screwdriver or similar? A dry motor bearing sometimes sounds like this but will go quiet when its loaded. CPC do (did?) a range of generic turntable drive belts, sold by diameter and height in mm. Nick.

27th Feb 2018, 3:57 pm	#16
sobell1980 Octode Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,241	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. I will have a fettle with it this evening. So are we all agreed the motor should not be making this much noise under a no load condition? In my experience of engineering a bearing noisy in no load condition would be considerably worse in a loaded condition. However this seems the other way around? Dave.

27th Feb 2018, 4:14 pm	#17
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,839	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Yes, I've often seen high-mileage cassette deck motors which squeal loudly off-load but which are quiet when doing their job. Run the motor unloaded, then apply a finger lightly to the pulley to apply some load and see if there's a noticeable difference.

27th Feb 2018, 4:16 pm	#18
boxdoctor Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ripley, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 785	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. In my experience just about all of this type of Matsushita motors make this noise when running free. I believe its the elecronic governor "hunting" due to lack of a load. I find all of these motors seem to benefit greatly by a drop of oil on the top bearing especially at this age, as per Nick the Dentist post#15. I would think that the graunching noise is the turntable catching on the deck. It may be warped, or the shaft bent. ISTR there is not much clearance between them, even when everything is properly aligned. Tony.

27th Feb 2018, 5:30 pm	#20
dazaaa1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 43	Re: Technics SL B210 record player strange noise. Just remembered one other thing from repairing these tables. The plastic gear under the platter that goes around the spindle usually cracks, resulting in a noisy or totally non functional auto return mechanism. Take a look, it could just be catching on something, in which case you simply pop the gear off and superglue it back together making sure the teeth are free from any glue so it meshes correctly.