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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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10th Feb 2018, 9:34 pm | #1 |
Octode
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Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
GP200
GP204 GP205 GP224 GP300 GP306 AG3306 GP310 AG3310 Above is a list of some Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridge types. Apart from external trim/finish differences e.g. chrome (some plain, some with a diamond motif at the end), silver and cream plastic, does anyone know if they had different specs in some way? Are they all stereo, are they all ceramic, same playing weight, same output etc? As far as I can gather, the GP200 and the GP205 are ceramic types, but I can’t confirm that for sure. The GP306 and the AG3306 look the same (maybe the same is also true for the GP310 and AG3310), but that probably means absolutely nothing. Some others (not listed here) have sockets instead of plugs. The GP230 and the GP235 might be examples of these, although I don’t have any examples to check this out first hand. Has anyone ever come across any comprehensive info on the entire series? Thank you. Regards, Andy
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10th Feb 2018, 10:10 pm | #2 |
Octode
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
I have a vague recollection that the only difference between the 204 and the 205 was that the 204 had a sapphire stylus and the 205 had a diamond stylus - but I could be wrong. I used to have an early 70's Philips catalogue with these cartridges featured but I'm not sure whether I still have it.
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11th Feb 2018, 11:47 am | #3 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
How strange that Philips would give the cartridge a different reference number just because of the stylus type fitted. Interesting.
Anyhow, some examples from my dead/partially dead graveyard. Cartridges from left to right are:- • 22GP200 • 22GP204 • 22GP205 • AG3306 • 22GP300 • 22GP310 Below the 22GP300 is an opened-up cartridge. Does this looks like a crystal type? It’s dead, as are most of the examples (or one channel dead). One day I’ll carefully open the up and see if there is any possibility of swapping over ceramic bits to make a good one out of two sick ones. Sorry about the poor quality photo. For the avoidance of doubt, in the same order, the top trim type is:- • Chrome (with diamond logo) • Grey • Chrome (with diamond logo) • Cream plastic • Chrome • Chrome
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17th Feb 2018, 7:50 pm | #4 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
OK, so here's an update. I cracked open a 22GP200 and as you can see, it's constructed differently from the 22GP300. Interestingly, the elements just pull out (with care) and I've managed to put two good elements in (one salvaged from this example and another 22GP200) and I've managed to create a fully working cartridge (yipppeeee!).
I wonder if the RS 285-784 'Piezoelectric Ceramic Bimorph Elements' would also work - one for another rainy day perhaps? Anyhow, they are different inside (well at least the two examples I've opened up anyway). Interesting. Regards, Andy
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18th Feb 2018, 12:59 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
I have been meaning to investigate this subject for some time so as to update my crystal/ceramic cartridge data document.
I think the very early cream types (AG3306) may have been crystal, see attached pics with telltale green goo. I think all the head types listed were stereo. At the very least, stereo compatible. The differences inside were probably just changes in production - after all these heads were made from the mid-1960s to the late 1970s. As I have mentioned in this thread, if these carts have no output I usually find that the elements are beyond hope and I just gut them and replace with a nice new Chuo Denshi type ceramic cart. Side by side comparison also proves that these modded heads sound better than the working 22GPxxx types - I have several, and they all sound different -one has excessive midrange, one is slightly low o/p, one had channel imbalance, another had very stiff rubber suspension giving groove jumping, etc. Even NOS types were inferior, it's just the ageing process. So I have no qualms about modifying them. If I find one with one dud channel I just use that in my AG4000 or 22GF403 mono portables. Attached more pics of the modified head used on my young son's 22GF632! You can see how well the new cart fits into the head, there is even a little stud at the front which 'fits' into a gap at the top of the Chuo Denshi, and helps centre it. For the purists,these carts were widely used in Philips midi systems in the 1980s, so could be considered a 'period modification' ;-) Some of these Philips stylus references are: F1275 , F1485 , F1662 , F1664 , F763CD , FCD185 , FCD285 , FCD462 , FCD463 , FCD465 , FCD485 , FCD560 , FCD562 , FCD563 , FCD565 , FCD585 , S1652 , SCD652
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18th Feb 2018, 3:23 pm | #6 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
Here's a guide to the vintage Philips styli and cartriges.
In Dutch but still very readable and useful |
18th Feb 2018, 5:57 pm | #7 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
Thank you for your input Ben and tri-comp.
That mod certainly looks neat. I guess you are snookered for 78rpm though. Mind you, a working cartridge to hear 45s and LPs properly is certainly better than listening to simple stylus noise from a dead cartridge! I'd recently acquired a mono battery Philips record player and though how weird some records sounded. Stupidly it took me a while to work out why. Yes you've guessed it, it was the stereo ones sounded strange and that was because one channel was dead (or very nearly) in the cartridge. The two channels are wired in parallel, but with one of them being dead, I was only hearing the one channel. OK with a mono record I suppose. You are certainly right about the varying condition of the suspension parts etc Ben. One of my examples just about drags its bottom on the record surface, where the other is quite a way off - all down to the stylus to element coupler condition. Thank you for the data tri-comp (first time I've ever seen any for these cartridges), so it does indeed looks like there were internal differences. I guess 'keramisch' is ceramic and 'kristal' is crystal, easy really, I'm speaking Dutch already!! PS My delight at creating a fully working cartridge from salvaged bits was premature. Can you believe that it's packed up again! Not sure why. Perhaps the stress of element removal was just too much for it? I need to take another look.
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18th Feb 2018, 10:21 pm | #8 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
Quote:
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19th Feb 2018, 2:14 pm | #9 |
Octode
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
You need to be a bit careful, the genuine Japanese Chuo-Denshi and the Chinese clones (at least the ones I had) were slightly different sizes and stylii could not be interchanged.
There is also a turnunder version of this cartridge style see https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/78rpm-LP-...19.m1438.l2649 No idea where this is manufactured. |
19th Feb 2018, 2:24 pm | #10 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
Two quick points (1) That cartridge would probably make a good substitute for the SC11, etc., but it doesn't appear to come with a mounting clip. (2) I did recently fit a stylus from one of the Chinese cartridges in the cart. fitted to a 1980s Amstrad record player, in which the cartridge was almost certainly a Chuo-Denshi (The player was made in Taiwan about 30 years ago, and it's cartridge was the original one)
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19th Feb 2018, 5:26 pm | #11 |
Retired Dormant Member
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
I have bought a few of the cartridges mentioned in post 9 and can confirm they are quite good. Although they don't come with a clip, they do fit the same clip as the "red" cartridges and the BSR stylus ST16 or ST 17 will fit albeit at a reduction in output due to a slightly longer cantilever.
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19th Feb 2018, 11:02 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
I also have used the generic styli on the older Chuo carts with no probs but will bear the compatibility warning in mind!
I have also seen those flip under SC11/12 clones bu as has been said, no clip, nor even a screw-hole, and they're a fair bit more expensive than the red and black ones, so haven't yet bitten...
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21st Feb 2018, 4:41 pm | #13 |
Heptode
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
This Philips battery record player, no model number, from the early seventies is fitted with a 22GP204 cartridge, tracking at 4 grams and still works well after a fault was put right. Also pictured a nos 22GP205.
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3rd Mar 2018, 8:12 pm | #14 |
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Re: Philips 5-pin plug-in cartridges
Well curiosity got the better of me and I went and bought a packet of RS285-784 ’Piezoelectric Ceramic Bimorph Elements’. I’ve attached the specification to this posting.
Well, can you believe it, they are EXACTLY the same dimensions at the original Philips elements. The downside is that they come with some really tiny diameter attached. I ended up unsoldering these as all you need to do is carefully slide the old element out and the new element in. Anyhow, it’s clear that it doesn’t at all like being de-soldered as all that happened is part of the coating detaches, especially when you then go and try to clean up the surface to get it perfectly flat. No matter, on the basis that the original elements aren’t insulated along their length, I figured that losing a very small bit at the end was no big deal. I proceeded, very carefully to scrape away (using just a Stanley blade in my hands) at the ends and approx. 5mm along the green coating (both sides) to create a continuous exposed surface, then, having cleared out all remnants of the old ones, I just slipped each one of them into the rubber mount. In doing so, the surfaces push hard up against the internal wire conductors and make the necessary connection. Hey presto! Lid on and no. 1 all sorted. It sounds fantastic. It has lots of output too – probably more than the original! Chuffed with my success, I went on to do no. 2, but when I tried that one, it became clear that there were other issues to contend with as the fine internal wiring that one of the element connects to was broken (o/c). There wasn’t enough slack to join the bits together and in any case, the join would have been inside the rubber mount which would have caused all sorts of problems. My last ditch attempt (nothing to lose at this point!) involved just poking bared fine wire-wrap wires down the rubber mount, followed by the new element to wedge it altogether. Amazingly it gripped just fine. Taking care to pick a suitable route for my wiring, I give it some slack, then connected the other ends of the wire wrap wire to the correct pins to the rear of the cartridge (polarity very important of course!) and went for a re-assembly and test. Another hey presto! moment. It too sounds really good. There is no perceivable difference in performance between the two channels, despite one having a wire-wrap solution. In both of my cases, the rubber mounts and suspension etc were all fine and I’m really pleased with the results. Sorry that I didn’t take a photo of the wire-wrap one (I’d re-assembled before I thought about it), but I do at least have a photo of the first one I did. Go one, have ago .. nothing to lose, you’ll be pleased you did. Regards, Andy
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