Recommendations for an early colour set - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Racalfanatic · 28th Sep 2007, 8:47 pm

Hi All,
I'd like to have a go at restoring an early colour television.
What would you recommend?
I'd need something with a 20" or smaller tube, due to lack of space.
Prefer hybrid construction.
Something with plenty of service information available.

This is all assuming I can get my hands on one

Cheers,
Ian

Dr-Watts · 28th Sep 2007, 8:55 pm

Early colour, definitely a Decca Bradford for a first timer.
I've got a spare manual if you need one.
They're nice and easy to repair, not to difficult to get to most of it (with exception of the audio amp) and if it's got a good tube, the picture's are usually brilliant.
All parts are readily available, Tripler, IC's and real common old valves, not so sure about the LOPT though.
I may be selling mine very soon because the GEC's taken it's place...

Seriously though, I'd consider one

Regards

Dr. Dave

Steve_P · 28th Sep 2007, 8:58 pm

ITT CVC5 - 8. These sets come in various tube sizes, the LOPT's rarely fail and there's every chance of a good tube.

Also the Decca 10 or 30 series.

Cheers,

Steve P.

Mikey405 · 28th Sep 2007, 9:16 pm

Hi Ian.

I would certainly agree with what Dave and Steve say. The CVC5-9 sets are pretty easy to repair (except for the awful IF daughterboard), they invariably produce a good picture, and the tubes always last well. The Decca bradfords are reliable, if not particularly special in any other way. The picture they produce is not stunning either, but they are generally likeable sets.

Another set you could try, and one which I would recommend, is the Pye CT205 or similar (691 / 693 / 697 chassis). They are moderately easy to repair and moderately reliable, but they can produce a stunning picture when set up correctly with a good tube. There aren't many faults with these sets that haven't been seen before either. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree, but I much prefer the 697 printed-circuit line scan panel to the earlier metal-chassis design. The print is always a bit dodgy, but it is always much easier to work on. The only downside with these sets is that they don't come any smaller than 22".

Anyway, that's my recommendation: A Pye hybrid.

Thanks Ian.

From Mike.

Hybrid tellies · 28th Sep 2007, 10:08 pm

Like everyone else I would say the Decca Bradford, ITT CVC5/9 and Pye Hybrid.
I don't know what your background is but you must be aware of the much higher voltages and power that are floating around in these colour sets as compared with say mains radios and mono tv's.

Mike Phelan · 29th Sep 2007, 8:37 am

Ian
As to your original question, any of them!

The following are purely my opinions:

Hybrid Pye - reasonable, but picture probably not the best; easy to repair, and you will need to!
ITT CVC9 et al - very reliable and nice performance, easy to repair.
Decca Bradford - same, but cabinet designs look a bit naff
Kuba Florence - ultra reliable and amazing picture, sound not very good.

Philips:

G6 - good if properly repaired - D/Std better than S/Std. Doubles as a room heater.
K70 - incredible sound and picture, way-out circuit design and not for the faint hearted.
K8 - ditto but less formidable.
Decca CTV25 - avoid!
Bush CTV25 - ditto unless you can make room in cabinet for a fire extinguisher.
Baird 700 - good, but weird circuit. One of the first in UK.

However, if you want a 20 inch, it's really got to be a Bradford - smallest Pye was 22 inch, and AFAIK ITT the same. If you can stretch to a 22 inch, all of the above except the CTV25s (!) and Baird are available in that size.

HTH

ppppenguin · 29th Sep 2007, 8:48 am

Why not a Thorn 2000? Not easy to find but the world's first solid state colour TV. Fairly easy to work on, isolated chassis. Outstanding EHT regulation due to separate EHT generator. Some had nice solid wooden cabinets with doors. 19" or 25" only.

dazzlevision · 29th Sep 2007, 9:01 am

Hello All,

There were 19" versions of the Pye 691 chassis and 20" versions of the ITT hybrid chassis series (CVC5/8/9). There were also 17" & 18" versions of the Decca Bradford chassis (models CS1730 & CS1830).

No-one has mentioned the GEC/Sobell hybrid colour sets (either dual or single standard versions), which also came in 19" & 20" models. I found these quite reliable (for the era), with good access (large, swing up chassis) and very easy to repair. They gave quite good pictures and the cabinet styling was quite attractive. The double-sided printed circuits put off some people but, if you use the correct soldering iron and some desoldering wick (or pump), components can be removed without damaging the tracks.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

Steve_P · 29th Sep 2007, 2:04 pm

I'd be inclined to leave the Pye out of the equation for a beginner. The CDA Board....

Also, isn't the Pye the one where switching off at the front tends to leave the back still live? On the top of the CDA Panel wasn't it?

Cheers,

Steve P

ALANS ANITAS · 29th Sep 2007, 2:48 pm

If we are going into all semiconductor sets, how about the Rank A823, Bush and Murphy. 20" models used a mechanical tuner, and the plastic nuts on the spindles would crack. Varistors and BT106's could fail. The Toshiba tubes also seemed to have a limited life. The LOPT's were ultra reliable. 22" and 26" had varicap tuners. Avoid touch tune models

Steve
I think the problem with the Pye 697 was that the vetical line timebase panel had the mains connected to it before going to the off-on switch. Live PCB tracks were exposed.

ALAN

dazzlevision · 29th Sep 2007, 3:10 pm

Hello,

On the Pye 697 chassis (the hybrid one with the large, vertical printed circuit power and line oscillator/line output unit), the mains fuse (at the top) was live if the set was plugged in and the wall socket was switched on. However, there was a red plastic cover over it, but this is often missing, due to lazy TV repair men - as were most of the back cover fixing screws (where used)!

I quite agree that the 20" and smaller (17" & 18") CRTs in sets didn't seem to last anywhere near as long as the 22" + sizes (which were invariably Mullard - apart from Thorn group sets). In particular, the unreliable smaller sizes were often made in Japan! Look at the CRT type label, it should say where it was made. Many of these were simply Japanese imports rebranded and re-labelled as Mullard (or ITT/SEL, for ITT & ITT-KB sets)!

Dazzlevision

Welsh Anorak · 1st Oct 2007, 3:40 pm

Hi
I'm afraid with early colour sets it's what you can get your hands on rather than what you'd like. I think the duals are best left alone (for people like me to fret over!) but an early single by ITT, Decca or GEC (all available in 20" or smaller) would do nicely, and have that valve glow!
Glyn

MALC SCOTT · 1st Oct 2007, 4:22 pm

Hi, look out for a Rediffusion MK1 20 inch. Only two valves, straightforward to work on, nice sound/pic and made in Co Durham.

dominicbeesley · 5th Oct 2007, 12:46 am

Just as a follow on, I'd love -anything- (well anything that might be servicable/fixable) with a Mullard (I think it was) shadow mask (made in Blackburn?) tube

[sorry I'm a complete novice when it comes to tellys especially colour. But I remember being quite transfixed by the dot pattern in my friend's telly and the brilliant colour. The fact that it was utterly knackered and the geometry of the picture shot to bits didn't matter.]

I've no idea where to look or who to ask for such a beast but would love to have one going somewhere, preferably a valve or hybrid set.

Dom

flyingtech55 · 5th Oct 2007, 1:56 pm

How about an ITT CVC 1 or 2? They're pretty rare but very good when they're going and they don't:

1) Catch fire even when they're switched off.
2) Electrocute the unwary even when they're switched off.
3) Have PCBs so carbonised that you can't solder them.
4) Have such poor colour matrixing that you can't watch snooker due to colour bleed.
5) Don't use the no longer available PL802.
6) Don't have focus rods which have turned to powder.
7) Don't have their works stapled to the inside of cabinet instead of a proper chassis.

Apart from that why not consider a Pye 205.

TimR

Racalfanatic · 7th Oct 2007, 12:04 pm

Hi All,
Thank you for your suggestions. Due to a lack of space in our spare room, I'd have to let a couple of my, as yet un-restored, 405 line tvs go.
I'm not really keen on doing this at the moment as I have only recently acquired them and I've just bought a Sobell TPS173 which, despite being a transportable set, has a 90 degree tube and so it's a bit bulky. It's a very lightly used example and it features an FM radio.
I have therefore decided to buy a Sony 1320 for now.
I just need to find one

Thanks again,
Ian

28th Sep 2007, 8:47 pm	#1
Racalfanatic Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 105	Recommendations for an early colour set Hi All, I'd like to have a go at restoring an early colour television. What would you recommend? I'd need something with a 20" or smaller tube, due to lack of space. Prefer hybrid construction. Something with plenty of service information available. This is all assuming I can get my hands on one Cheers, Ian

28th Sep 2007, 8:55 pm	#2
Dr-Watts Heptode Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 696	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Early colour, definitely a Decca Bradford for a first timer. I've got a spare manual if you need one. They're nice and easy to repair, not to difficult to get to most of it (with exception of the audio amp) and if it's got a good tube, the picture's are usually brilliant. All parts are readily available, Tripler, IC's and real common old valves, not so sure about the LOPT though. I may be selling mine very soon because the GEC's taken it's place... Seriously though, I'd consider one Regards Dr. Dave __________________ Do you have the scope to be a TV repair man

28th Sep 2007, 8:58 pm	#3
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set ITT CVC5 - 8. These sets come in various tube sizes, the LOPT's rarely fail and there's every chance of a good tube. Also the Decca 10 or 30 series. Cheers, Steve P. __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

28th Sep 2007, 9:16 pm	#4
Mikey405 Octode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Solihull, West Midlands and Beaford, Devon Posts: 1,626	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hi Ian. I would certainly agree with what Dave and Steve say. The CVC5-9 sets are pretty easy to repair (except for the awful IF daughterboard), they invariably produce a good picture, and the tubes always last well. The Decca bradfords are reliable, if not particularly special in any other way. The picture they produce is not stunning either, but they are generally likeable sets. Another set you could try, and one which I would recommend, is the Pye CT205 or similar (691 / 693 / 697 chassis). They are moderately easy to repair and moderately reliable, but they can produce a stunning picture when set up correctly with a good tube. There aren't many faults with these sets that haven't been seen before either. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree, but I much prefer the 697 printed-circuit line scan panel to the earlier metal-chassis design. The print is always a bit dodgy, but it is always much easier to work on. The only downside with these sets is that they don't come any smaller than 22". Anyway, that's my recommendation: A Pye hybrid. Thanks Ian. From Mike. __________________ G7TRF Last edited by Mikey405; 28th Sep 2007 at 9:21 pm.

28th Sep 2007, 10:08 pm	#5
Hybrid tellies Nonode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area. Posts: 2,967	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Like everyone else I would say the Decca Bradford, ITT CVC5/9 and Pye Hybrid. I don't know what your background is but you must be aware of the much higher voltages and power that are floating around in these colour sets as compared with say mains radios and mono tv's. __________________ Simon BVWS member

29th Sep 2007, 8:37 am	#6
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Ian As to your original question, any of them! The following are purely my opinions: Hybrid Pye - reasonable, but picture probably not the best; easy to repair, and you will need to! ITT CVC9 et al - very reliable and nice performance, easy to repair. Decca Bradford - same, but cabinet designs look a bit naff Kuba Florence - ultra reliable and amazing picture, sound not very good. Philips: G6 - good if properly repaired - D/Std better than S/Std. Doubles as a room heater. K70 - incredible sound and picture, way-out circuit design and not for the faint hearted. K8 - ditto but less formidable. Decca CTV25 - avoid! Bush CTV25 - ditto unless you can make room in cabinet for a fire extinguisher. Baird 700 - good, but weird circuit. One of the first in UK. However, if you want a 20 inch, it's really got to be a Bradford - smallest Pye was 22 inch, and AFAIK ITT the same. If you can stretch to a 22 inch, all of the above except the CTV25s (!) and Baird are available in that size. HTH __________________ Mike.

29th Sep 2007, 8:48 am	#7
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Why not a Thorn 2000? Not easy to find but the world's first solid state colour TV. Fairly easy to work on, isolated chassis. Outstanding EHT regulation due to separate EHT generator. Some had nice solid wooden cabinets with doors. 19" or 25" only.

29th Sep 2007, 9:01 am	#8
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,621	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hello All, There were 19" versions of the Pye 691 chassis and 20" versions of the ITT hybrid chassis series (CVC5/8/9). There were also 17" & 18" versions of the Decca Bradford chassis (models CS1730 & CS1830). No-one has mentioned the GEC/Sobell hybrid colour sets (either dual or single standard versions), which also came in 19" & 20" models. I found these quite reliable (for the era), with good access (large, swing up chassis) and very easy to repair. They gave quite good pictures and the cabinet styling was quite attractive. The double-sided printed circuits put off some people but, if you use the correct soldering iron and some desoldering wick (or pump), components can be removed without damaging the tracks. Regards, Dazzlevision

29th Sep 2007, 2:04 pm	#9
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set I'd be inclined to leave the Pye out of the equation for a beginner. The CDA Board.... Also, isn't the Pye the one where switching off at the front tends to leave the back still live? On the top of the CDA Panel wasn't it? Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

29th Sep 2007, 2:48 pm	#10
ALANS ANITAS Rest in Peace Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North West Northamptonshire, UK. Posts: 346	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set If we are going into all semiconductor sets, how about the Rank A823, Bush and Murphy. 20" models used a mechanical tuner, and the plastic nuts on the spindles would crack. Varistors and BT106's could fail. The Toshiba tubes also seemed to have a limited life. The LOPT's were ultra reliable. 22" and 26" had varicap tuners. Avoid touch tune models Steve I think the problem with the Pye 697 was that the vetical line timebase panel had the mains connected to it before going to the off-on switch. Live PCB tracks were exposed. ALAN Last edited by ALANS ANITAS; 29th Sep 2007 at 2:54 pm.

29th Sep 2007, 3:10 pm	#11
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,621	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hello, On the Pye 697 chassis (the hybrid one with the large, vertical printed circuit power and line oscillator/line output unit), the mains fuse (at the top) was live if the set was plugged in and the wall socket was switched on. However, there was a red plastic cover over it, but this is often missing, due to lazy TV repair men - as were most of the back cover fixing screws (where used)! I quite agree that the 20" and smaller (17" & 18") CRTs in sets didn't seem to last anywhere near as long as the 22" + sizes (which were invariably Mullard - apart from Thorn group sets). In particular, the unreliable smaller sizes were often made in Japan! Look at the CRT type label, it should say where it was made. Many of these were simply Japanese imports rebranded and re-labelled as Mullard (or ITT/SEL, for ITT & ITT-KB sets)! Dazzlevision

1st Oct 2007, 3:40 pm	#12
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,925	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hi I'm afraid with early colour sets it's what you can get your hands on rather than what you'd like. I think the duals are best left alone (for people like me to fret over!) but an early single by ITT, Decca or GEC (all available in 20" or smaller) would do nicely, and have that valve glow! Glyn

1st Oct 2007, 4:22 pm	#13
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hi, look out for a Rediffusion MK1 20 inch. Only two valves, straightforward to work on, nice sound/pic and made in Co Durham. __________________ Malc Scott

5th Oct 2007, 12:46 am	#14
dominicbeesley Octode Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,885	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Just as a follow on, I'd love -anything- (well anything that might be servicable/fixable) with a Mullard (I think it was) shadow mask (made in Blackburn?) tube [sorry I'm a complete novice when it comes to tellys especially colour. But I remember being quite transfixed by the dot pattern in my friend's telly and the brilliant colour. The fact that it was utterly knackered and the geometry of the picture shot to bits didn't matter.] I've no idea where to look or who to ask for such a beast but would love to have one going somewhere, preferably a valve or hybrid set. Dom

5th Oct 2007, 1:56 pm	#15
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set How about an ITT CVC 1 or 2? They're pretty rare but very good when they're going and they don't: 1) Catch fire even when they're switched off. 2) Electrocute the unwary even when they're switched off. 3) Have PCBs so carbonised that you can't solder them. 4) Have such poor colour matrixing that you can't watch snooker due to colour bleed. 5) Don't use the no longer available PL802. 6) Don't have focus rods which have turned to powder. 7) Don't have their works stapled to the inside of cabinet instead of a proper chassis. Apart from that why not consider a Pye 205. TimR

7th Oct 2007, 12:04 pm	#16
Racalfanatic Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 105	Re: Recommendations for an early colour set Hi All, Thank you for your suggestions. Due to a lack of space in our spare room, I'd have to let a couple of my, as yet un-restored, 405 line tvs go. I'm not really keen on doing this at the moment as I have only recently acquired them and I've just bought a Sobell TPS173 which, despite being a transportable set, has a 90 degree tube and so it's a bit bulky. It's a very lightly used example and it features an FM radio. I have therefore decided to buy a Sony 1320 for now. I just need to find one Thanks again, Ian