Pioneer CLD-D605 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

samson7point1 · 15th Oct 2016, 12:20 am

I recently acquired this player and have watched about 20 discs on it. Today when it reached the end of a side, I hit stop, and the system became completely quiet and started flashing E0 on the screen and would not eject the disc.

I ended up taking the lid off the player, removing the crossbar on the top and very carefully removing the disc. The spindle assembly was stuck in the up position. I manually threaded the laser assembly back on its track and manually turned the loading pulley until the spindle assembly lowered and I was able to remove the tray.

I removed the entire spindle assembly to check for broken bits but found nothing. When manually operated everything seemed to work. I traced the lines for both the loading motor and the motor on the laser assembly and checked for voltage while the machine should have been trying to engage the motor and found none. I also connected a AA battery to each motor (after looking up spec sheets on them to make sure they could handle it) and confirmed that the motors themselves are working. I've checked continuity across the ribbon cables, cleaned the connectors etc...

The service manual mentions a "Slider position switch" but I'm not sure what that is or where to find it.

Can anyone render any advice on what I should try next?

percival007 · 15th Oct 2016, 2:23 pm

What does the Manual say E0 means?

James.

samson7point1 · 15th Oct 2016, 6:35 pm

From the Manual

E*
Slider Error
Conditions: During slider movement, a time over-run occurred (track count search 20 seconds, mandatory movement 10 seconds)

Probable Cause
- Slider ceased being able to run
- The slider mechanism is mechanically locked and can no longer move to its target
- Slider position switch NG
- Drive IC NG
- Power Supply abnormal

Spent some more time this morning troubleshooting.

- Tore down the entire loading mechanism, located all of the position switches, tested them all for continuity when depressed.
- Reseated the sockets and pin-connectors for the switches (cleaned them with deoxit before re-connecting).
- Manually operated the loading mechanism and verified the position switches were working (i.e. tested the switches for continuity before and after).
- Completely removed the flex cable from the pickup, cleaned it, tested it for continuity etc...
- Bridged the jumper to put the deck into test mode - which according to the manual "Can force the slider to move". The onscreen display reacts to the button push, but the deck doesn't respond mechanically.
- Tested the leads next to both the pickup and loading mechanism connectors marked 5V and GND. The pickup tested at 4.8 and loading mechanism at 4.9.

Since I can apply a 1.5v charge at the ribbon cable and get the pickup to move, I *think* that eliminates the slider being mechanically locked and the flexible cable being pulled out.

Not sure yet how to test the power supply, but those voltages being so close to their labelled values seems to suggest that's not the issue. But I don't have enough experience with these things to really know that. It's old equipment so I guess it could be a capacitor failure, but what little experience I do have suggests capacitor failure to be a gradual degradation, not a sudden one.

percival007 · 16th Oct 2016, 10:54 am

I can't easily find the Service Manual on-line. Are you able to post it here?

The Motor Drive IC will be supplied by a +/- 12(15?) Volt Supply if I remember correctly. These need to be verified good.
Do you have access to a 'scope? If so, then in Test Mode when you press the button for Sled + then you should see a Signal at the Input to the Motor Drive IC.

These things were really quite reliable electronically and it was almost always a Mechanical failure. However, you seem to have ruled that out fairly comprehensively so I think it has to be an electronic fault somewhere.
My favourite suspect would be the Power Supply or the Motor Drive IC.
Pioneer were very fond of using in-line PSU Fuses. Often little orange things the size of a 1/4 W resistor (can't find a pic on-line) or looking like a two-legged Transistor (see attached pic).
Worth giving these a measure. They did sometimes just 'go' but usually they went for a reason. Extra current draw from the Sled Motor because of dirt/dried grease etc.

James.

samson7point1 · 16th Oct 2016, 4:32 pm

I've sort of been cheating when it comes to the service manual. I've been using the manual for the CLD-D604 because they're almost identical and I couldn't find the 605 either.

I don't have a scope but I should probably buy one.

I believe you're talking about the "loading motor"? (it's an RF-500TB 14415 so 5v) Since all I can do is measure voltage, I traced the circuit that powers the motor to the ribbon connector on the main board and touched the probes to the two pins and got nothing. Now, I didn't do this during test mode, I did it when I powered the unit on because moving the tray is usually the first thing it does.

Found the fuses you mentioned on the diagram, but I couldn't get at them from the top because they're all sandwiched between or under other components. Had to take the whole power supply board out. I believe I located all of the inline fuses. They all check out as far as continuity.

Here's an image of the bottom of the board and the fuses I checked - let me know if I missed something.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg...ew?usp=sharing

samson7point1 · 17th Oct 2016, 12:55 am

I can't seem to find an IC dedicated to the motor, but I did find a pin on the main IC (IC101) labeled SLDDRV. According to the manual: "Slider control signal output pin. 5V=FWD, 0V=REV, 2.5V=STOP 910 [mu] sec period, tri-state contrll H, L, Z" There's also a TILTDRV pin: "LOAD/TILT control output pin. 0.5v - tray IN, OUT/tilt DOWN, UP 2.5V - STOP Use tilt servo that tilt drive is PWM output."

I assume those are the things you were talking about testing with a scope?

percival007 · 17th Oct 2016, 3:56 pm

Looking at the Manual you mention (CLD-D604) the Slider Motor is half of IC803. See page 17. This looks like it runs off the +/- 12 Volt Supply.

I'm not sure how similar the two units are as the PSU in the CLD-D604 does not mention some of the parts on your picture of the PSU from your CLD-D605.
In the 604 there are some small Fuses like the ones I mentioned. These are IC1 and IC2 for example.
I think on your unit there are some also. Check IC's 210 and 211.

The Voltages you mention, "Slider control signal output pin. 5V=FWD, 0V=REV, 2.5V=STOP'', seem good so you need to find if these get to the Motor Drive IC and do some measurements around that IC. Sorry, without the correct Manual I can't help you identify it.
The 604 uses the LA6510, datasheet here... http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...YO/LA6510.html
The 605 may use something else though but it will almost certainly have a Heatsink Tab on it so should be easy to see. There will probably be more than one as similar ICs will be used to drive the other Motors.

James.

samson7point1 · 17th Oct 2016, 6:05 pm

Yeah I'm finding more and more that doesn't match so I'm chasing down a proper manual. Just using the 604 as a way to narrow down the guesswork. Actually I don't know how to check the SLDDRV or the TILTDRV, so I'm not sure if those are good or not. What I do know is that shorting either to ground makes the respective motors turn. There's an "IC803" located directly adjacent to the main IC - it's a "TOSHIBA TA8410AK 9640k" - could that be the Drive IC? (I realize it's hard to tell without the proper manual, but is that the sort of thing I should be looking for?).

Here's a pic of it
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg...ew?usp=sharing

percival007 · 17th Oct 2016, 7:17 pm

Yes that'll be the IC.

Now, you say that the motors turn if you short those Test Points to ground? That to me would indicate that the Motor Drive IC's are working OK and have Supplies. The plot thickens!

I think a Manual is going to be necessary.

I'll see what I can find.

James.

percival007 · 20th Oct 2016, 7:33 pm

I have a contact still at Pioneer (I used to work at a Pioneer Authorised Service Centre) and have asked if there was a possibility of obtaining a Service Manual. Unfortunately they don't have one but there are some SI documents still, which related to a ''...cracked FG mount on the spindle motor....'' that causes things like the tray not to open.

I've asked if I can have a copy of the document. I may not be able to post it here but should be able to send it to you in a PM or at least give you the gist !

James.

percival007 · 21st Oct 2016, 7:07 pm

Attached is the SI Document regarding Powering Up but no Tray Opening.............................

Not sure it'll cure it but it'd be worth checking out.

James.

samson7point1 · 22nd Oct 2016, 7:01 pm

I wasn't able to track down a service manual, but I was able to get my hands on another busted CLD-D605. I was able to verify that the loader, slider/pickup, and spindle motors are all good and working - they fired right up when put into the other unit. So the problem is definitely on the mainboard whatever it is. I tried testing out the drive ICs but it's pretty much impossible to measure voltage at the IC pins while the whole thing is assembled. What I did, however, was to measure continuity between the power pins of the drive IC. Since there were two of the exact same IC on the board I could directly compare them. Oddly when I measure the drive IC closest to the main IC continuity is intermittent. It'll check good a couple of times then I can't get a reading on it for a few minutes then it'll check good. I don't know if that's normal behavior, but it doesn't happen with the other IC. I ordered a replacement drive IC and I'm just going to swap it out. If it's not a bad drive IC, the next likely candidate is the main IC, and I basically need to cannibalize another deck to get one of those - from what's available online it seems like the main ICs were different for every model.

15th Oct 2016, 12:20 am	#1
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Pioneer CLD-D605 I recently acquired this player and have watched about 20 discs on it. Today when it reached the end of a side, I hit stop, and the system became completely quiet and started flashing E0 on the screen and would not eject the disc. I ended up taking the lid off the player, removing the crossbar on the top and very carefully removing the disc. The spindle assembly was stuck in the up position. I manually threaded the laser assembly back on its track and manually turned the loading pulley until the spindle assembly lowered and I was able to remove the tray. I removed the entire spindle assembly to check for broken bits but found nothing. When manually operated everything seemed to work. I traced the lines for both the loading motor and the motor on the laser assembly and checked for voltage while the machine should have been trying to engage the motor and found none. I also connected a AA battery to each motor (after looking up spec sheets on them to make sure they could handle it) and confirmed that the motors themselves are working. I've checked continuity across the ribbon cables, cleaned the connectors etc... The service manual mentions a "Slider position switch" but I'm not sure what that is or where to find it. Can anyone render any advice on what I should try next?

15th Oct 2016, 2:23 pm	#2
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 What does the Manual say E0 means? James.

15th Oct 2016, 6:35 pm	#3
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 From the Manual E* Slider Error Conditions: During slider movement, a time over-run occurred (track count search 20 seconds, mandatory movement 10 seconds) Probable Cause - Slider ceased being able to run - The slider mechanism is mechanically locked and can no longer move to its target - Slider position switch NG - Drive IC NG - Power Supply abnormal Spent some more time this morning troubleshooting. - Tore down the entire loading mechanism, located all of the position switches, tested them all for continuity when depressed. - Reseated the sockets and pin-connectors for the switches (cleaned them with deoxit before re-connecting). - Manually operated the loading mechanism and verified the position switches were working (i.e. tested the switches for continuity before and after). - Completely removed the flex cable from the pickup, cleaned it, tested it for continuity etc... - Bridged the jumper to put the deck into test mode - which according to the manual "Can force the slider to move". The onscreen display reacts to the button push, but the deck doesn't respond mechanically. - Tested the leads next to both the pickup and loading mechanism connectors marked 5V and GND. The pickup tested at 4.8 and loading mechanism at 4.9. Since I can apply a 1.5v charge at the ribbon cable and get the pickup to move, I think that eliminates the slider being mechanically locked and the flexible cable being pulled out. Not sure yet how to test the power supply, but those voltages being so close to their labelled values seems to suggest that's not the issue. But I don't have enough experience with these things to really know that. It's old equipment so I guess it could be a capacitor failure, but what little experience I do have suggests capacitor failure to be a gradual degradation, not a sudden one.

16th Oct 2016, 10:54 am	#4
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 I can't easily find the Service Manual on-line. Are you able to post it here? The Motor Drive IC will be supplied by a +/- 12(15?) Volt Supply if I remember correctly. These need to be verified good. Do you have access to a 'scope? If so, then in Test Mode when you press the button for Sled + then you should see a Signal at the Input to the Motor Drive IC. These things were really quite reliable electronically and it was almost always a Mechanical failure. However, you seem to have ruled that out fairly comprehensively so I think it has to be an electronic fault somewhere. My favourite suspect would be the Power Supply or the Motor Drive IC. Pioneer were very fond of using in-line PSU Fuses. Often little orange things the size of a 1/4 W resistor (can't find a pic on-line) or looking like a two-legged Transistor (see attached pic). Worth giving these a measure. They did sometimes just 'go' but usually they went for a reason. Extra current draw from the Sled Motor because of dirt/dried grease etc. James. Attached Thumbnails

16th Oct 2016, 4:32 pm	#5
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 I've sort of been cheating when it comes to the service manual. I've been using the manual for the CLD-D604 because they're almost identical and I couldn't find the 605 either. I don't have a scope but I should probably buy one. I believe you're talking about the "loading motor"? (it's an RF-500TB 14415 so 5v) Since all I can do is measure voltage, I traced the circuit that powers the motor to the ribbon connector on the main board and touched the probes to the two pins and got nothing. Now, I didn't do this during test mode, I did it when I powered the unit on because moving the tray is usually the first thing it does. Found the fuses you mentioned on the diagram, but I couldn't get at them from the top because they're all sandwiched between or under other components. Had to take the whole power supply board out. I believe I located all of the inline fuses. They all check out as far as continuity. Here's an image of the bottom of the board and the fuses I checked - let me know if I missed something. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg...ew?usp=sharing

17th Oct 2016, 12:55 am	#6
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 I can't seem to find an IC dedicated to the motor, but I did find a pin on the main IC (IC101) labeled SLDDRV. According to the manual: "Slider control signal output pin. 5V=FWD, 0V=REV, 2.5V=STOP 910 [mu] sec period, tri-state contrll H, L, Z" There's also a TILTDRV pin: "LOAD/TILT control output pin. 0.5v - tray IN, OUT/tilt DOWN, UP 2.5V - STOP Use tilt servo that tilt drive is PWM output." I assume those are the things you were talking about testing with a scope?

17th Oct 2016, 3:56 pm	#7
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 Looking at the Manual you mention (CLD-D604) the Slider Motor is half of IC803. See page 17. This looks like it runs off the +/- 12 Volt Supply. I'm not sure how similar the two units are as the PSU in the CLD-D604 does not mention some of the parts on your picture of the PSU from your CLD-D605. In the 604 there are some small Fuses like the ones I mentioned. These are IC1 and IC2 for example. I think on your unit there are some also. Check IC's 210 and 211. The Voltages you mention, "Slider control signal output pin. 5V=FWD, 0V=REV, 2.5V=STOP'', seem good so you need to find if these get to the Motor Drive IC and do some measurements around that IC. Sorry, without the correct Manual I can't help you identify it. The 604 uses the LA6510, datasheet here... http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...YO/LA6510.html The 605 may use something else though but it will almost certainly have a Heatsink Tab on it so should be easy to see. There will probably be more than one as similar ICs will be used to drive the other Motors. James.

17th Oct 2016, 6:05 pm	#8
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 Yeah I'm finding more and more that doesn't match so I'm chasing down a proper manual. Just using the 604 as a way to narrow down the guesswork. Actually I don't know how to check the SLDDRV or the TILTDRV, so I'm not sure if those are good or not. What I do know is that shorting either to ground makes the respective motors turn. There's an "IC803" located directly adjacent to the main IC - it's a "TOSHIBA TA8410AK 9640k" - could that be the Drive IC? (I realize it's hard to tell without the proper manual, but is that the sort of thing I should be looking for?). Here's a pic of it https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg...ew?usp=sharing

17th Oct 2016, 7:17 pm	#9
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 Yes that'll be the IC. Now, you say that the motors turn if you short those Test Points to ground? That to me would indicate that the Motor Drive IC's are working OK and have Supplies. The plot thickens! I think a Manual is going to be necessary. I'll see what I can find. James.

20th Oct 2016, 7:33 pm	#10
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 I have a contact still at Pioneer (I used to work at a Pioneer Authorised Service Centre) and have asked if there was a possibility of obtaining a Service Manual. Unfortunately they don't have one but there are some SI documents still, which related to a ''...cracked FG mount on the spindle motor....'' that causes things like the tray not to open. I've asked if I can have a copy of the document. I may not be able to post it here but should be able to send it to you in a PM or at least give you the gist ! James.

21st Oct 2016, 7:07 pm	#11
percival007 Heptode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 852	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 Attached is the SI Document regarding Powering Up but no Tray Opening............................. Not sure it'll cure it but it'd be worth checking out. James. Attached Thumbnails

22nd Oct 2016, 7:01 pm	#12
samson7point1 Diode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA. Posts: 6	Re: Pioneer CLD-D605 I wasn't able to track down a service manual, but I was able to get my hands on another busted CLD-D605. I was able to verify that the loader, slider/pickup, and spindle motors are all good and working - they fired right up when put into the other unit. So the problem is definitely on the mainboard whatever it is. I tried testing out the drive ICs but it's pretty much impossible to measure voltage at the IC pins while the whole thing is assembled. What I did, however, was to measure continuity between the power pins of the drive IC. Since there were two of the exact same IC on the board I could directly compare them. Oddly when I measure the drive IC closest to the main IC continuity is intermittent. It'll check good a couple of times then I can't get a reading on it for a few minutes then it'll check good. I don't know if that's normal behavior, but it doesn't happen with the other IC. I ordered a replacement drive IC and I'm just going to swap it out. If it's not a bad drive IC, the next likely candidate is the main IC, and I basically need to cannibalize another deck to get one of those - from what's available online it seems like the main ICs were different for every model.