Using 220v French toaster in UK? Any risks?

[Okto1984]

I've just obtained a vintage French toaster. I would estimate from the 70s or very early 80s, and any thoughts about it's suitability to use in the UK would be very welcome, as this is not something I've tried before. At the time of buying it, I thought that we basically have the same 230v 50hz electrical supply across western Europe now, and that plugging it in here should be no different. However, I looked this up to be sure later and it seems in fact the tolerance ratings were changed, but the supply hasn't! That has made me stop and rethink before trying anything just yet.

The toaster says 220v, but so far I think it should be fine on 240v. It's a basic device, I expect to find just wires, switches, the quartz heater tubes and a bimetallic strip inside. It should also all be very heat resistant. I'm currently picturing perfect toast rather than a large bang when I try it out. However, have I missed anything important?

[Nickthedentist]

You're right, but its life could be shortened if the voltage is higher than it was designed for.

Don't forget that:

Power = Voltage squared / Resistance

So if you make the assumption that the element's resistance doesn't vary, the power output at 240V will be nearly 20% greater than it was designed for at 220V.

I'd start by measuring your mains supply (at various times) to see if it's really 240V, and take it from there.

Nick.

[OscarFoxtrot]

Depending on the rating of the quartz heater tubes, they may get rather hotter and have a shorter lifespan on 240V rather than on 220V.

I don't know whether 'shorter lifespan' means it will die in 5 years as opposed to 10, or whether it will go fizzzzzzzzt the third time you use it.

[pmmunro]

To some small extent, the element will tend to self compensate as it will have a positive temperature coefficient. For example, http://kanthal.com/en/products/mater.../nikrothal-60/ .

This example alloy is suitable for temperatures up to 1150 deg. C. which is probably hotter than it's working temperature on 240 V. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heat

This last table also gives a means of estimating the running temperature of the element.

PMM

[jjl]

Like the rest of the EU, France standardised on a mains voltage of 230V in recent decades, as has the UK. Strictly speaking, you would be over-running your toaster somewhat if you used it in France today. However, I suspect that there are quite a few 30+ year old toasters still giving good service in France and you have nothing to worry about in the UK either.
When I lived in France, the mains voltage varied between 223 and 235V. At my current location in the UK it varies between 231 and 242V.

John

[mark pirate]

I use a 220v kettle in my workshop with no problems. After six years it is still working fine, so don't worry too much about the voltage difference.

Mark

[broadgage]

It should be fine, not only is the voltage difference fairly small, but also I am not convinced that ANY difference existed between 220 volt and 240 volt versions of the same cheaper low technology appliances.
I have a suspicion that they all came off the same production line and had 220 volt or 240 volt stickers applied according to the end market.

[Herald1360]

I'll add to the chorus of "just use it". It'll do your toast a bit quicker is all.

Back in 196X when my parent's house was "converted" from 200 to 240 volt supply, the MEB man changed the light bulbs, retapped anything with taps and just stuck "Converted for 240V" labels on anything else. I guess the idea was that it was old kit anyway and if it failed...... tough. A possible sale for their retail shop

[Dave Moll]

Don't forget that the voltage is allowed to be as high as 253V (230V+10%). My plug-in monitor registers mine as usually pretty close to this maximum, or even a volt or two above it at times.

When calculating the level of overloading of your 220V appliance, it is as well to work on the maximum.

[emeritus]

My recently-deceased brother-in-law lived in France, and when European mains voltages were standardized at a nominal 230V, his rose from 220 to 235, whereas ours fell from 240 to 235V. His early 1980's vintage toaster worked fine on 235V.

[McMurdo]

I wouldn't worry about it. We were importing 220V appliances from Europe for years with few problems.

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
The only thing to be really wary of with vintage French appliances is that it might have been designed for 110volts, which was the norm before standardisation throughout Europe. Step-down autotransformers were very common here and still easily found.
Cheers, Pete.

[Okto1984]

Thank you all for the replies. Sounds like there's no major reason to doubt it will work. I'm not too worried about a shorter life for the quartz tubes, although of course I hope it will last well. The main concern is safety.

It's definitely 220v rather than 110v, and earthed with a polarised French schuko plug. So my BS 1363 socket should provide everything needed to use it as designed. I just need to be sure which cable goes where when I replace the plug. The current plug is moulded plastic and won't open easily, but some continuity testing of the different cables and pins once it has been cut off should solve that. Even if the colours appear familiar, I shouldn't assume they're the same. Vintage French appliance wiring colours aren't really my speciality and internet searches didn't turn up anything. I imagine looking inside the toaster, which I'll do also, should confirm what goes where.

I'll have to see how this goes, but looking around, it seems France has lots of interesting vintage appliances for low prices. Maybe if it goes well I'll buy some more in time.

[broadgage]

Most of Europe has been 220 volt for decades before the relatively recent change to 230 volts.
110 or 120 volts was no doubt used in some places, but was never widespread, and was very rare indeed in the 1970s from when the toaster is believed to date.

The most widespread modernisation of supplies in much of mainland Europe was the change from 3 phase, 4 wire at 127/220 volt to 3 phase, 4 wire at 220/380 volts. Any remaining 127 volt appliances would have been replaced or equipped with a transformer, but most consumers had 220 volt appliances by then.

Other supplies were changed from 3 phase 3 wire 220 volt to the new standard of 3 phase, 4 wire at 220/380 volt.

[Okto1984]

If anyone is curious, this is the toaster:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2216916057...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The seller says 60s/70s, but I would estimate not that old. I'd say approximately 1980. Just a hunch. I may be surprised if I find the actual date. Whatever the case, it's an interesting design.

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
When you cut the plug off, depending how vintage it is (and with quartz tubes, not very), you will find that the colours will be exactly the same as the UK.
So long as the earth wire is connected properly, the French don't worry too much about which way round the brown & blue wires are connected. I have a double wall socket and some three way adaptors, and the polarity you get depends which socket you use!
Because the toaster is only used for several minutes at a time, it should last for years. I use a UK toaster here and it takes the same time to grill a bit of pain de mie as it did in the UK.
Cheers, Pete.

[Herald1360]

That'll be a 770W toaster here, then. Doesn't sound OTT- my two slot toaster runs 1400W.

[Okto1984]

The same colour wires sounds good. I'm surprised polarity isn't more important in France, but perhaps they rely on other safety features?

I think quartz tubes are more efficient in toasters. They emit infra-red light that directly heats the objects they're illuminating without heating the air, plus they have curved reflectors in the sides which reduce energy losses.

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
The modern French system uses 'disjoncteurs' or miniature circuit breakers instead of fuses and, in the event of a trip, both live and neutral poles are broken. Unlike the UK system where only the live passes through the MCB and the neutrals are all commoned onto a busbar. Therefore, polarity is less of an issue here than there.
Also, a 'disjoncteur differentiel' or residual current circuit breaker is mandatory
Cheers, Pete.

PS Sorry if I've drifted OT.

[Okto1984]

Thank you, that explains the situation much better. Looks like I need to see inside to toaster to be sure about the live and neutral wires. There will be a switch when the toast is pushed down, and either it's switching one wire, or both. If just one, I assume that the live should be connected to the switch.