UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28th Mar 2023, 4:26 pm   #1
RichardGM
Pentode
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Harrow, Middlesex, UK.
Posts: 200
Default Medical stimulator

This is another of the items from my friend's late husband's collection. It isn't "household" but this seems the nearest category. I'm not posting it in the Offered section because I suspect no-one would want it, but perhaps we can find out a bit about it.

This web page http://www.simoncornwell.com/urbex/h...e130702/96.htm describes some related equipment though not this particular model.

The single valve is a PCL83. I don't know what the brown cylindrical component between the valve and the transformer is. Whatever it may be, it is supported by a pair of thin blades that seem to be slipped in between the transformer laminations.

Between that component and the front panel is a glass object, a bit like a miniature valve but thinner, with a few wires coming from the bottom end and going through a grommet to the circuitry under the chassis.

Any thoughts about these components?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Front.jpg
Views:	338
Size:	87.1 KB
ID:	275937   Click image for larger version

Name:	Inside.jpg
Views:	300
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	275938   Click image for larger version

Name:	odd component.jpg
Views:	262
Size:	24.8 KB
ID:	275939   Click image for larger version

Name:	blade.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	58.2 KB
ID:	275940  
RichardGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 4:55 pm   #2
Tractorfan
Dekatron
 
Tractorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.)
Posts: 3,128
Smile Re: Medical stimulator

Hi,
The glass object looks like a DM70 'magic eye' indicator. They were often used in tape recorders to indicate the volume level when recording. A green glow akin to an exclamation mark (!) extends as the level rises until the column touches the dot. Hope this helps.
A fascinating piece of kit!
Cheers, Pete.
__________________
"Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."
Tractorfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 4:58 pm   #3
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,038
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I assume this to be a forerunner of the TENS machine, which is designed to stimulate the muscles by means of an electric current. TENS machines normally have pads that attach to the skin to deliver this current. Does this have anything equivalent?

I should add that such electro-medical devices are an area of collecting that I include in my interest.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 5:13 pm   #4
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I agree that the glass device is likely a DM70; the slot for its display is clearly visible in the front panel.

Attached to the brown cylinder is what appears to be an arm extending from the side of the transformer. Evidently more than a mechanical anchorage, it passes through a slot in the wraparound frame and is perhaps embedded into the lamination stack, being itself perhaps a piece of lam. It might couple a coil to the transformer or something - would need more pics / schematics to clarify.

Quote:
I suspect no-one would want it
Many of us are as interested (or more interested) in devices like this as in TVs and radios, but get fewer opportunities to study them. Fascinating piece that deserves conservation.
Lucien Nunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 5:59 pm   #5
regenfreak
Heptode
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: London SW16, UK.
Posts: 655
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Yes it looks like the antique version of EMS Electro-Muscle Stimulators/TENS. It can produce different pulse widths, waveforms and frequencies of microcurrents. I read a lot of research papers about them and I own several of the modern and very expensive versions of such professional medical devices made by manufacturers like Complex, Globus and Neurotrac. I used them to prevent muscle atrophy under a physiotherapist's guidance before and after major shoulder surgery and also back pain! I have been lifting weights for 35 years, and I got all kinds of injuries.
regenfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 6:28 pm   #6
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,098
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Be nice to get it going, just to see the indicator, I guess it would move up and down as the output waved about? Not sure I'd dare try it in person mind you in case that transformer insulation is past its best.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 8:21 pm   #7
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Any date codes on anything (especially the capacitors) to give a date to this thing?
alfatangowhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 8:37 pm   #8
Julesomega
Octode
 
Julesomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,803
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I was hoping to see something about the Medical stimulator to combat nervous 'tics' that was in the news recently.

'Life changing' Tourette's gadget trialled

A bit of googling led me to the research paper detailing the procedure and results, from which we can see that bursts of 12Hz pulses at a defined repetition rate were used. They helpfully include details of the positioning of the gel pads, and the current amplitude needed seems to be marginally subliminal. I was thinking any Lab pulse generator with triggering and variable amplitude could be used.

Entraining Movement-Related Brain Oscillations to Suppress Tics in Tourette Syndrome

Think I'm developing a bit of that Tourettes
__________________
- Julian

It's good here
Julesomega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 8:50 pm   #9
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 21,888
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I've repaired a veterinary equivalent, made under the name "Transeva" and used for physiotherapy/chiropractory on horses and cattle.

It was transistor-based, but early and battery powered for safety in wet areas. The output was a sharp pulse causing quite a fast and hard muscle twitch. Circuitry was like a plain old inductance discharge ignition system.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 9:04 pm   #10
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,098
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I'm sure it was one of the 'Doctor' comedy films where a wheelchair-bound man was trying to seduce his nurse and she was applying one of these things to his leg presumably to keep his muscles in tone until he could get back on his feet. The Doctor series of films were made by Rank AFAIK..and Stanley Cox was a subsidiary of Rank, so I wonder if it was some obscure product placement?
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Mar 2023, 11:21 pm   #11
TowerRadio
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 371
Default Re: Medical stimulator

I have a muscle stimulator made by Multitone.It has 4 valves, 3x EF91 and a PL81 which I guess is part of an HT stabiliser.l mean to draw the circuit one day.Probably dates from the 50's.There is paperwork with it.In a wooden box,well made and heavy,there is a mains transformer and 2 large inductance blocks with tappings for the pulse rate and width.Les
TowerRadio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 2:27 am   #12
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,521
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Click image for larger version

Name:	dad.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	275965

Above is a photo of my late father, taken in the 1950's in his physiotherapy treatment room (the front room of our house).

The large console on the right of which only half is in view, is an electrotherapy machine. I am fairly sure it was made by Electro Medical Supplies, a company that still exists as EMS Physio Ltd.

I emailed them a few years ago hoping to get a scan of a manual, or some contemporary marketing material about the machine, and I did get a nice reply, although nothing specifically about my dad's machine.

A similar, but older model, probably pre-war, was featured on Antiques Roadshow.

The recess in the centre of the console is covered by a glass door and behind it the mechanism that rhythmically surged the current. it consisted of a glass flask filled with saline solution and a motor and lever arrangement lowered and raised an electrode.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 2:49 am   #13
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 21,888
Default Re: Medical stimulator

The thing sticking out the side of the transformer looks like a single lam (or part of one) that can move into or out of a narrow airgap in the main core. A variable coupling/variable voltage feature at a guess?

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 9:52 am   #14
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Quote:
Any date codes on anything (especially the capacitors) to give a date to this thing?
I can see one already: W WH on what is evidently a Hunts capacitor, being week 11 of year 19*2 (the alternative decode of December 1971 is highly unlikely). The PCL83 was not yet in manufacture in 1952 so the likely manufacture year of the unit is 1962.

The Colvern pot might have a 2-letter code and/or there might be an etch date on the valve, to corroborate.
Quote:
Not sure I'd dare try it in person mind you in case that transformer insulation is past its best.
If one is lucky, that smaller transformer is an output transformer from the valve to couple to the patient circuit, which could give a second layer of isolation from the mains and isolation from earth if the HT is referenced to earth. In any case one could run it from an external isolating transformer.

With my curator's hat on, I would be thinking that if the capacitors were sound and it could be operated without getting a soldering iron out, all well and good. But if any parts needed replacing, would what we could learn from operating it justify the intervention in a unit that is probably in 100% undisturbed, as-built condition. OK, we see the DM70 light up and get tingles from it, but is that instructive?

Last edited by Lucien Nunes; 29th Mar 2023 at 10:03 am.
Lucien Nunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 10:27 am   #15
RichardGM
Pentode
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Harrow, Middlesex, UK.
Posts: 200
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Thanks for so many responses in less than 24 hours. In particular thanks for identifying the glass thingy as a magic eye. I am familiar with the larger diameter ones that you view end-on, having had one in my first tape recorder about 1958, but I hadn't met this kind.

I did suspect that the brown thing might be a coil somehow loosely coupled to the mains transformer, but it seems a very odd arrangement and I don't understand how it might work or why they would have chosen it.

Anyone feel inclined to give the beast a home?
RichardGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 10:47 am   #16
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,038
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardGM View Post
Anyone feel inclined to give the beast a home?
I'd love to!
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2023, 5:12 pm   #17
TowerRadio
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 371
Default Re: Medical stimulator

My stimulator is the type known as a Ritchie-Sneath,dated c.1952.The cost was 140.00 which would have bought you a top of the range console televisor.Les
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20230329_165514.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	75.8 KB
ID:	276003   Click image for larger version

Name:	20230329_165529.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	50.8 KB
ID:	276004   Click image for larger version

Name:	20230329_165538.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	276005   Click image for larger version

Name:	20230329_165556.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	80.5 KB
ID:	276006  
TowerRadio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2023, 10:02 pm   #18
Joe_Lorenz
Hexode
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany
Posts: 356
Default Re: Medical stimulator

By the way: These cute DM70 and DM71 valves need to be handled taking some good caution. The wires are easily broken and the heater takes not more than 25 mA @ 1.4 V!

Joe
Joe_Lorenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Apr 2023, 8:53 pm   #19
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,098
Default Re: Medical stimulator

Years ago I ordered a muscle toner from John Lewis (one of those multi channel things) and just had to lift the lid to see how it worked. It had a mains transformer to take it down to 6V and then a row of 'output transformers' and an oscillator to generate very narrow high voltage spikes (around 60-70V, I scoped them) for the pads. I assume this is a similar approach to the Stanley Cox model as it is able to generate muscle contraction without pain. I believe this is because the muscles react to the specific waveform but the nerves don't relay any pain. Just as well really.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Apr 2023, 9:03 pm   #20
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 26,738
Default Re: Medical stimulator

These aren't complete snake oil. Physiotherapists use their modern descendents to help people rebuild muscle tone after a traumatic injury. Obviously you do have to be wary of devices offered outside the mainstream health systrm though.
paulsherwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 6:07 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.