What is this white stuff in the grain? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Intelicide · 7th Nov 2009, 11:34 pm

I stripped my P75 last week with that "gentle" nitromors stuff "for cabinets".
I rubbed it down tonight with Acetone and 0000 wire wool.
It looks nice and clean and shiny,though I think i will bleach it.

I was going to spray lacquer it but now am undeciced-maybe Danish Oil with a Canadian Cedar tint..

However,on closer inspection(very close) I have noticed white stuff in the grain pits,like some sort of residue left over from stripping which has been squished down into the pores of the wood.I am afraid in case this shows up after the final finishing,whatever that might be.

What is this white stuff?
Do I need to get rid of it or will bleaching/final finishing hide it?

I would post a pic but my stupid HP camera has crapped out.

chipp1968 · 7th Nov 2009, 11:49 pm

I suspect that it is grain filler . This probaly is the origial grain filing done in the factory before finishing ad helps to produce a nice smooth finish. I think its some sort of plaster ? It should take stain .
Cedars a little bit red ist it?

Intelicide · 7th Nov 2009, 11:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipp1968

I suspect that it is grain filler . This probaly is the origial grain filing done in the factory before finishing ad helps to produce a nice smooth finish. I think its some sort of plaster ? It should take stain .
Cedars a little bit red ist it?

Yes,cedar is a bit red.
I was looking at Colrons refined range of Danish Oils and the Antique pine looked a bit pale.The others were totally the wrong shade.
I want it to look like Evingars radio.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...&highlight=P75

If it is grain filler then I have no need to worry.
By the way,if I put a shaded Danish Oil on it and it looks bad,can it be easily removed without staining the wood?

Radio_Dave · 8th Nov 2009, 3:00 am

Could be grain filler or maybe you just haven't removed all the lacquer yet?

You can get a quick preview, of how the finished cabinet may look, by wiping the prepared cabinet with white spirit. It should show up any problems with residual lacquer and will help you decide if you want to use a coloured finish

David

chipp1968 · 8th Nov 2009, 10:29 pm

Im a little worried about using Cedar .. Prob best to use something clear . or to stain with spirit spain first.
If the markings are tiny white rice like specs it could be grain filler , but could also be missed lacquer as David says

Retired · 9th Nov 2009, 11:52 am

Hi,

The traditional filler was Plaster of Paris usually applied under French polish. The filler would be rubbed well into the grain using a coarse cloth like sacking; the cloth would be wetted with water and dipped into plaster then the plaster would be well rubbed into the grain working in small areas at a time as plaster sets up quickly. Excess plaster would be quickly removed by wiping ACROSS the grain. For dark veneers the plaster would be slightly coloured with something like Rose Tint but on lighter veneers the whiteness of the plaster would be killed by rubbing over with RAW LINSEED oil with excess oil being buffed off using clean cloth. (oily cloths must never be piled up or they can self ignite).

I've used Plaster of Paris and it can be quite frightening as it looks pure white when it dries and on my first attempt I thought I had ruined the job. Much to my relief applying the RAW LINSEED oil was a truly magical moment as the colours of the veneers jumped out at me and even now this gives me a great deal of satisfaction.

I think your Pye P75 would be finished in Lacquer and this is totally different to French Polish. For a factory embracing spray finishing to take the trouble of hand filling grain would surprise me as grain filling this way is quite labour intensive.

It's possible a product called SANDING SEALER would have been used as a base coat; this is cellulose based and seals the pores of the veneer imparting no colour. Sanding sealer is easily sanded and dusted off then a full coat of gloss lacquer would finish the job. Industrial spray guns apply far more solids than any "spray can" and build up a good thickness of lacquer in little time.

Due to the two light coloured bands of veneer I wouldn't go near a set like this with stain as I learned the hard way when I totally veneered a new radio cabinet with contrasting veneers and applied stain only to see all the veneers suddenly looked the same colour. Also a stripped cabinet is very vulnerable to damage such as splashes from WD40; yes another lesson learnt the hard way.

Lacquer is a surface coating so little harm would be done to try spraying a small area and if this proved unsatisfactory it could be removed.

I've seen many cabinets finished with DANISH OIL and they look beautiful but unlike Lacquer; Danish Oil will penetrate deep into the pores of the veneer and I'm unsure how this would effect any future attempt at applying Lacquer?

For a beginner spraying clear Lacquer using spray cans is very difficult as it is extremely hard to judge how much Lacquer is being applied until curtains and runs appear. Clear Lacquer is unlike paint as it is transparent and like looking through glass. Horizontal surfaces are easy enough to spray but vertical surfaces are a totally different matter.

One way to make life easier is to attach two short planks overhanging the front of a bench and sliding the cabinet onto the planks thereby giving horizontal surfaces to spray by rotating the cabinet; an old bed sheet would protect surrounding areas and ventilation would be needed to avoid build up of explosive fumes. Care would be needed as the cabinet was rotated not to catch the newly applied Lacquer.

I'm very careful with various finishes and always apply the rule of using like with like; I would never use oil based products under lacquer.

Finally to answer your question the white bits could well be lacquer which would possibly show up white after sanding but as mentioned by David a quick check would be to wet a bit although I would use thinners sparingly.

http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/pye75.html This site shows a P75 finished in a darker colour.

Hope this is of use and good luck, Col.

Nickthedentist · 9th Nov 2009, 1:22 pm

Fascinating, Col.

Mods, can we save this thread, please?

Nick.

Intelicide · 9th Nov 2009, 7:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retired

Hope this is of use and good luck, Col.

Invaluable and very interesting,thanks Col.
I have very little experience spraying,none with laquer so I think I will go down the Danish Oil route.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipp1968

Im a little worried about using Cedar .. Prob best to use something clear
If the markings are tiny white rice like specs it could be grain filler

The specs are exactly as you described-grains of rice shaped.
After seeing Col,s P75 with the darker finish,I think I will go with the clear Danish oil.Mine was a bit darker than that again.When I seen Evingars P75 and saw how red-ish it was,I thought all P75 looked like this and set about stripping mine as it was almost black and very scummy looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Could be grain filler or maybe you just haven't removed all the lacquer yet?
You can get a quick preview, of how the finished cabinet may look, by wiping the prepared cabinet with white spirit.
David

I rubbed white spirit over it and it looked much the same shade as Cols radio.
Also,those white specs disappeared.I am sure now I will use clear Danish oil.
Thanks all of you.

Aidan.

Intelicide · 9th Nov 2009, 7:46 pm

Oh,and by the way..

If I use Danish oil,do I have to use some sort of sanding sealer/grain filler first?

Retired · 9th Nov 2009, 8:43 pm

Hi Aidan,

It should be ok to apply Danish Oil directly to the stripped cabinet without filling first; apply with a soft cloth and avoid heavy build up in corners. let each coat of oil dry before applying the next coat and keep adding more coats until you are happy with the finish.

The first couple of coats might dry a bit patchy but not to worry as more coats will even the job out. Applying the oil to a radio cabinet should only take minutes for each coat using a cloth and it is simply wiped on evenly and left without overworking.

The cabinet will need to be kept in a warm dry place whilst work proceeds or the oil could take quite a while to dry.

I made and installed fully fitted pine wardrobes to one of our bedrooms years ago and finished these with Danish oil; they look as good today as when I first made them although the colour has mellowed to a golden brown. Col.

7th Nov 2009, 11:34 pm	#1
Intelicide Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Portadown Posts: 34	What is this white stuff in the grain? I stripped my P75 last week with that "gentle" nitromors stuff "for cabinets". I rubbed it down tonight with Acetone and 0000 wire wool. It looks nice and clean and shiny,though I think i will bleach it. I was going to spray lacquer it but now am undeciced-maybe Danish Oil with a Canadian Cedar tint.. However,on closer inspection(very close) I have noticed white stuff in the grain pits,like some sort of residue left over from stripping which has been squished down into the pores of the wood.I am afraid in case this shows up after the final finishing,whatever that might be. What is this white stuff? Do I need to get rid of it or will bleaching/final finishing hide it? I would post a pic but my stupid HP camera has crapped out.

7th Nov 2009, 11:49 pm	#2
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? I suspect that it is grain filler . This probaly is the origial grain filing done in the factory before finishing ad helps to produce a nice smooth finish. I think its some sort of plaster ? It should take stain . Cedars a little bit red ist it?

8th Nov 2009, 3:00 am	#4
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Could be grain filler or maybe you just haven't removed all the lacquer yet? You can get a quick preview, of how the finished cabinet may look, by wiping the prepared cabinet with white spirit. It should show up any problems with residual lacquer and will help you decide if you want to use a coloured finish David

8th Nov 2009, 10:29 pm	#5
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Im a little worried about using Cedar .. Prob best to use something clear . or to stain with spirit spain first. If the markings are tiny white rice like specs it could be grain filler , but could also be missed lacquer as David says

9th Nov 2009, 11:52 am	#6
Retired Heptode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fenay Bridge, Huddersfield. UK. Posts: 673	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Hi, The traditional filler was Plaster of Paris usually applied under French polish. The filler would be rubbed well into the grain using a coarse cloth like sacking; the cloth would be wetted with water and dipped into plaster then the plaster would be well rubbed into the grain working in small areas at a time as plaster sets up quickly. Excess plaster would be quickly removed by wiping ACROSS the grain. For dark veneers the plaster would be slightly coloured with something like Rose Tint but on lighter veneers the whiteness of the plaster would be killed by rubbing over with RAW LINSEED oil with excess oil being buffed off using clean cloth. (oily cloths must never be piled up or they can self ignite). I've used Plaster of Paris and it can be quite frightening as it looks pure white when it dries and on my first attempt I thought I had ruined the job. Much to my relief applying the RAW LINSEED oil was a truly magical moment as the colours of the veneers jumped out at me and even now this gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I think your Pye P75 would be finished in Lacquer and this is totally different to French Polish. For a factory embracing spray finishing to take the trouble of hand filling grain would surprise me as grain filling this way is quite labour intensive. It's possible a product called SANDING SEALER would have been used as a base coat; this is cellulose based and seals the pores of the veneer imparting no colour. Sanding sealer is easily sanded and dusted off then a full coat of gloss lacquer would finish the job. Industrial spray guns apply far more solids than any "spray can" and build up a good thickness of lacquer in little time. Due to the two light coloured bands of veneer I wouldn't go near a set like this with stain as I learned the hard way when I totally veneered a new radio cabinet with contrasting veneers and applied stain only to see all the veneers suddenly looked the same colour. Also a stripped cabinet is very vulnerable to damage such as splashes from WD40; yes another lesson learnt the hard way. Lacquer is a surface coating so little harm would be done to try spraying a small area and if this proved unsatisfactory it could be removed. I've seen many cabinets finished with DANISH OIL and they look beautiful but unlike Lacquer; Danish Oil will penetrate deep into the pores of the veneer and I'm unsure how this would effect any future attempt at applying Lacquer? For a beginner spraying clear Lacquer using spray cans is very difficult as it is extremely hard to judge how much Lacquer is being applied until curtains and runs appear. Clear Lacquer is unlike paint as it is transparent and like looking through glass. Horizontal surfaces are easy enough to spray but vertical surfaces are a totally different matter. One way to make life easier is to attach two short planks overhanging the front of a bench and sliding the cabinet onto the planks thereby giving horizontal surfaces to spray by rotating the cabinet; an old bed sheet would protect surrounding areas and ventilation would be needed to avoid build up of explosive fumes. Care would be needed as the cabinet was rotated not to catch the newly applied Lacquer. I'm very careful with various finishes and always apply the rule of using like with like; I would never use oil based products under lacquer. Finally to answer your question the white bits could well be lacquer which would possibly show up white after sanding but as mentioned by David a quick check would be to wet a bit although I would use thinners sparingly. http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/pye75.html This site shows a P75 finished in a darker colour. Hope this is of use and good luck, Col.

9th Nov 2009, 1:22 pm	#7
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,871	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Fascinating, Col. Mods, can we save this thread, please? Nick.

9th Nov 2009, 7:46 pm	#9
Intelicide Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Portadown Posts: 34	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Oh,and by the way.. If I use Danish oil,do I have to use some sort of sanding sealer/grain filler first?

9th Nov 2009, 8:43 pm	#10
Retired Heptode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fenay Bridge, Huddersfield. UK. Posts: 673	Re: What is this white stuff in the grain? Hi Aidan, It should be ok to apply Danish Oil directly to the stripped cabinet without filling first; apply with a soft cloth and avoid heavy build up in corners. let each coat of oil dry before applying the next coat and keep adding more coats until you are happy with the finish. The first couple of coats might dry a bit patchy but not to worry as more coats will even the job out. Applying the oil to a radio cabinet should only take minutes for each coat using a cloth and it is simply wiped on evenly and left without overworking. The cabinet will need to be kept in a warm dry place whilst work proceeds or the oil could take quite a while to dry. I made and installed fully fitted pine wardrobes to one of our bedrooms years ago and finished these with Danish oil; they look as good today as when I first made them although the colour has mellowed to a golden brown. Col. Attached Thumbnails