Re-veneering a cabinet

[kalee99]

Hello All,

I am restoring am HMV 653 which I paid the huge sum of £3-50p for!

It is in quite good condition and by no means a wreck! However big lumps of the surface veneer ar missing, so I have bought some nice walnut veneer on Ebay to do both sides of the cabinet.

Anyone any tips on "how to", or what to avoid? Also what is the best method of removing the remains of the old veneer?

Thanks,
Paul

See also this thread.

[Aerodyne]

Hi Paul
Assuming your veneer is standard thin sheet cut from a baulk of timber, i.e. not pre-finished, pre-glued or with an adhesive sheet backing, then you will notice that it tends to be slightly wavy and will not lie dead flat on a surface. This is why my suggestion is to use woodworker's adhesive such as PVA when bonding it to your cabinet substrate. So:

Remove all existing remnant veneer and glue and flatten the surface. This is essential. Use a paint-stripping heat gun and a blade scraper for this messy and arduous task. The veneer will lift bit by bit and break up as you go. A cork block wrapped with rough grade abrasive paper should assist clean-up. Trim your veneer sheet to a little larger than you need, say half an inch or so. Soak in cool water for a while - say, an hour or so, depending upon the veneer - then blot it as dry as possible with newsprint or paper kitchen towel. This should make the veneer pliable.

Apply a coat of adhesive to the back of the veneer and one to the cabinet side to be veneered. Spread this adhesive with the edge of a piece of thick card or a blade scraper to make it very thin and very even. Do not overdo the amount of glue but you must ensure absolute coverage with no missed areas. I suggest glueing both surfaces because of the likelihood of suction by the very dry cabinet pulling the moisture too soon from the PVA.

Smooth the sheet into place as you would a layer of wallpaper, working with pressure from middle to edges to prevent air bubbles. Professionals use a veneering hammer which consists of a blunt brass blade at right angles to a stock. They use a zig-zag motion as the pull the tool toward them over the veneer. You needn't go to such lengths!

Essential: Clamp using a thick chunk of flat timber such as an MDF or plywood panel. Plenty of clamps needed. Very heavy weights can suffice, just about, if you are limited with clamp numbers. Originally the glue used would have been Scotch (animal) glue, applied hot. Capable of being remelted, it gave some measure of subsequent adjustment via heat. Most woodworking glue - including PVA - does not possess the property of being meltable and once set, that's basically it, so it is important to get it right first time.

An alternative is to use thixotropic impact adhesive. This is done with the veneer unwetted and should pull any waves flat. The stuff stinks and is bad for your health, so use a face mask. Apply as even a coat as possible to both surfaces, wait until tack-dry (follow instructions on the container) then smooth into place in the manner already suggested.

You only get one chance, so handle it with care. It can be immediately trimmed around the edges using a craft knife. Watch for grain direction to avoid cutting into the good! A fine sanding block can finish edges neatly as a preparation for your finishing treatment. The drawback is that a fine glue line will be exposed around the edges but in practice this is hardly noticeable.

Enough already and we've barely scratched the surface of the task, but if I can help more, PM me.
Tony

[kalee99]

Thanks for that Tony,
I bought a big tub of "evostick", type adhesive from the supplier who supplied the veneer. I understand it is the same stuff the "glue heads", sniff so I will wait for a fine day and do the job outdoors! So no need to pre-soak if using an impact type glue?
It is a very simple cabinet so I should be OK.
Thanks again,
Paul.

[joe]

Hi Paul

Tony has pretty well answered it for you but I thought I'd mention another form of "glueing" and that is adhesive sheet. It consists of a thin sheet of plastic covered on both sides with a thermoplastic glue and having a silicone backing sheet on both sides. You iron the stuff onto the cabinet and then apply the veneer and using a press iron , iron the whole lot together.

I've never tried it on a radio but I did cover some shelving & fitted wardrobes quite successfully.

Try Googling veneer(ing)

Joe

[Phil G4SPZ]

Originally Posted by joe

...I thought I'd mention another form of "glueing" and that is adhesive sheet. It consists of a thin sheet of plastic covered on both sides with a thermoplastic glue and having a silicone backing sheet on both sides. You iron the stuff onto the cabinet and then apply the veneer and using a press iron , iron the whole lot together.

I've never tried it on a radio...

I used 'iron-on' teak veneer many years ago to cover the top and sides of a Decca colour TV which originally had an all-white cabinet. Unfortunately I can't remember the source of the veneer, which came in sheets about 12" wide and 3' long, but it made a superb job of the set and was relatively quick and easy to apply.

Phil

[Ed_Dinning]

Hi Paul, I think I've had the glue sheet from the local shop in Bedlington station, the one at Monlseaton certainly does it and Boddies at Boroughbridge will do it by post.

Ed

[kalee99]

Originally Posted by Ed_Dinning

Hi Paul, I think I've had the glue sheet from the local shop in Bedlington station, the one at Monlseaton certainly does it and Boddies at Boroughbridge will do it by post.

Ed

Thanks Ed,
I will stick with the evostick thanks.
The thoughts of using the electric iron fills me with dread! If "her indoors", found out I could use it, I would have no more time for wireless restorations!
On the serious side could not, say a hot output valve near the side of the cabinet cause the thermo' type adhesive to fail and cause the veneer to blister up? I have seen sets where the polish on the veneer has a dark circle where something hot inside the set is located.
I will post again with pic's before and after veneering.
Thanks all,
Paul.

[Radio Fixer]

The only thing wrong with the Evo Stick is that its final. Get it wrong or the veneer ripples dont pull down, and they often dont, then you cant get the stuff off for another try. Also, for a restorer in the future its a write off. But it doesn't sound like a valuable set so perhaps not much to lose. And I have done it and it worked.

Did you know you can now get an Evo Stick that allows slip when you bring the surfaces togther? Then pressure causes glueing to take place. As said make sure the under surfaces are clean, all old veneer removed and wiped over several times with hot damp cloth to get rid of all old glue. Then I would give then a final sand. Good luck.

[Aerodyne]

The only glue that would allow you to remove and re-veneer is animal (scotch) glue. This comes most commonly as 'pearls' which need to be heated to melt, then applied hot. Rapid cooling fixes tightly. Bit smelly but good if you get blisters in the veneer - just heat with a domestic iron and the glue remelts, alllowing you to flatten the blister. That said, trying to remove veneer originally glued with Scotch glue is hard work.
-Tony

[PWH]

I would rather use the traditional stuff as at least it is reversable in the future. You can get it here http://www.richardbarry.co.uk/ look under adhesives/traditional adhesives. It is smelly though

[kalee99]

Hello Folks,
Thanks for the advice everyone!
I bought a big tin of an "Evostick", type adhesive on Ebay. It allows some small repostioning prior to pressing home. I used an old flat iron for the job and it worked a treat! I then used some water based stain to get a nice colour to the veneer.
I am now at the final stage of applying many layers of clear laquer (rubbing down between coats).
I think I will get the final coats on this weekend if this fine weather keeps up? I will post photos of before & after when finished.
Paul

[kalee99]

Hello All,
I got it all finished including chassis re-capping and final cabinet finishing off.
Now all re assembled and playing away like "One O clock"!
Photos attached. I think it is a nice set for my initial outlay of £3-00p
Thanks everyone for the most welcome advice.
Now just a case of sneaking it into the sitting room somehow (any advice)
Thanks again,
Paul.

[tvden]

I just thought I would add my twopenyworth if members are going to use the old type scotch glue its a good idea to keep an eye open for a old two part gluepot at bootsales ect I was lucky as a friend used to collect these and I was able to get one from him, I supose you could use the wifes saucepan at your peril

[Aerodyne]

Spot on, Den. By far the safest method of using Scotch glue, the boiling water in the outer vessel keeping the glue from burning, and the pots ar solid and stable, but I think perhaps more difficult to use without a gas ring. Personally I'll stick (pun there, eh!) with PVA as I think it is more controllable for large areas.
-Tony