UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc)

Notices

Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd Oct 2019, 11:41 pm   #1
retailer
Pentode
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 123
Default Daphne Oil ?

Has anyone heard of Daphne Oil ? I just repaired the auto return on a Kenwood KS3000 turntable for my neighbour and on downloading the manual I see it calls for Daphne Oil to lubricate certain bits of the auto return mechanism, I ask because the oil is used at a point where pivoting motion is transfered from one component to another purely it seems by the viscosity of the oil.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	57.0 KB
ID:	192278  
retailer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 12:01 am   #2
joebog1
Heptode
 
joebog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 934
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

https://www.idemitsu.com/business/lube/maintenance.html

That site has a little information.
I used to run a company that manufactured moving iron meters. These need damping or they swing about like mad. Two loops of 1.5mm diameter wire wound around a magnet.
We used 200 weight Daphne oil on the pivots to stop the oscillations.
joebog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 7:59 am   #3
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 14,433
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

I've never heard of it.

Very few Google hits for it, mainly this one, where it seems to cover a range of different products: https://www.idemitsu.com/business/lube/maintenance.html
Nickthedentist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 8:12 am   #4
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,625
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

One of those DAPHNE oils is a high viscosity one intended for damping mechanisms. The others seem to be lighter as hydraulic fluids and oils for turbines (high speeds and temperatures)

The picture does quote a trio corporation part number for the intended stuff, this will be the only route to knowing which one of that brand they mean.

Otherwise, look at what's on there and take a guess at some western product.

Lubriplate is an American brand spaecialising in greases which stay where you put them and don't go walkies all over everything.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 8:21 am   #5
Craig Sawyers
Nonode
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 2,061
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Well Daphne are a group of plants https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/popular/daphne .

But as Nick says it is also a class of synthetic oils made by idemitsu. They seem to be lubrication oils used in air conditioners, so possibly have to cope with high pressure lubrication.

I might just go for a drop of two of motor oil.
Craig Sawyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 9:41 am   #6
Refugee
Dekatron
 
Refugee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 4,246
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Kilopoise is the European brand name and Farnell used to sell it.
It is a tad pricy though.
Refugee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 12:34 pm   #7
retailer
Pentode
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 123
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Looking at the exploded view - the detection arm pivots on the detection arm shaft which is part of the detection operating arm, as the tone arm reaches the end of a record a projection on the underside of the tone arm pushes the detection operating arm - the arm shaft rotates and this in turn transmits motion to the detection arm - the detection arm is free to rotate on the shaft so it is only the viscosity of the oil that transmits the motion, the use of a high viscosity substance to transmit motion rather than some sort of positive mechanical setup seems like a strange way to achieve a result.

I checked out RS components - I doubt my neighbour (the owner of the turntable) will pay for a specialist viscous compound, he only wants a record player setup for his workshop - paid a total for $40 for the amp, t/table and speakers, the crowning glory of the setup was the speakers a pair of Yamaha NS10's in perfect condition

Not having any Daphne Oil available I tried some high melting point front wheel bearing grease, seems to do the job.
retailer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 2:09 pm   #8
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 18,572
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

I've never heard of Daphne oil either, so I suspect it's known as something else in Europe. If it's a noncritical application you can use 20/50 engine oil or gear oil for damping. I suspect automotive grease will dry out eventually. You could try Vaseline, but that might be too viscous.
paulsherwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 3:58 pm   #9
Craig Sawyers
Nonode
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 2,061
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

The alternative to kilopoise that Refugee mentioned is high viscosity silicone oil that is used by the model vehicle enthusiasts.

I found no problem in sourcing 60,000cS for the SME arm damper and 1 million cS for the arm drop. 1 million cS is very difficult to handle - it hardly flows at all!

Here you go - every viscosity you could ever need https://www.modelsport.co.uk/accesso...es/9980/998025

I've just seen they do a 20 million cS one now!

Poise = Stokes for silicone greases because the density is 1. So the old Rocol Kilopoise range translates to units of 1000cS

Craig
Craig Sawyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 4:58 pm   #10
PJL
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 4,250
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

kilopoise was used by B&O for damping self closing lids. Over the years it migrates to form a dark patch at the bottom of the equipment. Probably the same stuff used for toilet seats!
PJL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 7:33 pm   #11
m0cemdave
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 756
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
Here you go - every viscosity you could ever need https://www.modelsport.co.uk/accesso...es/9980/998025

Craig
Thanks for the link, that looks very useful.
Does anyone know what the rating is for the kilopoise used in the well-known Jackson 6:1 reduction drives? I have a few that need refurbishing.
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 7:59 pm   #12
Bazz4CQJ
Nonode
 
Bazz4CQJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,524
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

I would have thought that a ball-drive, like the Jackson, would do better with a grease rather than an oil, but when you realise that there are now 20 million cS oils available, the question seems less clear. I think I'd still be inclined to go for a grease... but maybe for tuning a radio, oil would be better

What should I use on my HRO worm drive?

B
__________________
We know there are known unknowns. But there are unknown unknowns ones we don't know we don't know.
Bazz4CQJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 8:26 pm   #13
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 8,377
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post
What should I use on my HRO worm drive?
I used grease...Sthil grease that I use for my chainsaws and strimmers, did the job no problem.

Lawrence.
ms660 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 4:33 am   #14
Argus25
Nonode
 
Argus25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

For all the turntable repairs I have done in the past I use Phonolube, here is a description:

"Phonolube is a light bodied grease made of polymerized oil, specially developed for the lubrication of small geared mechanisms such as phonograph motors and changers. Retains its viscosity over a wide range of temperatures. Highly resistant to oxidation. Will retain excellent lubricating properties for years".

I have also used it on the slow moving parts of my vintage electric clocks.

I'm pretty sure this is very similar to the Lubriplate product mentioned by David, both are a white grease I think.
Argus25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 5:50 am   #15
Argus25
Nonode
 
Argus25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,447
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

....it looks like Phonolube is discontinued and as far as I can tell, replaced by this version of lubriplate:

"Lubriplate Aero Multi Purpose Low Temp Lithium Lubricant Grease LO113-086"

But obviously this is more of a grease than an oil.
Argus25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 8:50 am   #16
'LIVEWIRE?'
Dekatron
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,034
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

I uses to use Molykote grease on moving parts of things such as the moving parts of cassette mechanisms. It's a black grease of a light texture. I'm not certain of it's chemical composition, but, IIRC, Blaupunkt used to recommend Molykote for use on their Car Cassette Players.
'LIVEWIRE?' is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 9:03 am   #17
Craig Sawyers
Nonode
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 2,061
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

These guys offer silicone greases that they say replace discontinued Kilopoise greases.

https://support.newgatesimms.com/fin...amping-grease/

They are not cheap though: 126.75 excluding VAT for a 500g jar.

Craig
Craig Sawyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 10:13 am   #18
retailer
Pentode
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 123
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

I was having a think about the auto return setup where motion is transmitted only by the viscosity of the oil, it now makes sense - a direct mechanical or even spring transmitted motion would probably put excessive strain on the tonearm needle mounting system within the cartridge, it is the needle riding in the record groove that moves the tone arm to actuate the auto return. The needle mounting system must be very compliant in order to track the audio signal in the groove so it makes sense to reduce to a minimum any stress on the mounting system.
retailer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 10:21 am   #19
Steve G4WCS
Hexode
 
Steve G4WCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 261
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

someone here offering small quantities of the 0868 kilopoise.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rocol-086...jO2PzX5qcnOhPA

I have half a small tube here that I bought for telescope focussing mechanisms, looks like I need to lock it in the house safe in case the garage gets broken into
Steve G4WCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Oct 2019, 10:35 am   #20
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 12,625
Default Re: Daphne Oil ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post

What should I use on my HRO worm drive?

B
A molybdenum disulphide-loaded grease in small quantity should be fine and give long life. You don't need high temperature or high pressure performance, just something which sticks around. The lubriplate 'stays where you put it' white grease would be a good choice too.


The Jackson ball drives rely on viscous drag to work, and their stiff feel like a camera lens movement is a give-away that some grade of kilopoise is involved.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:03 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2019, Paul Stenning.