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Old 9th Nov 2015, 10:39 pm   #21
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Exactly there are too many variables including ancillary equipment that can play a part in variations found thus far
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 10:09 pm   #22
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Thank you moderation team for re-opening the thread
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 10:15 pm   #23
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

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The current thinking by Alan Shaw (Harbeth) is that BBC designs are just that - intended for the BBC's use primarily. There's certainly enough evidence gathered over some years to suggest a 3 or more db drop in response from 400Hz (5/8) and 500Hz (5/9) to around 3kHz to back it up. My own 5/9's though, have gone from sounding dry toned and analytical in high 24" mounted free space conditions, to fat and soft toned close to a wall and sat on solid platforms desk mounted (the only place I could use them) and rather nice in free space on 18" pillar stands, so it's anyone's guess frankly. Some equivalent period Spendor SP2/3's sounded bland and rather 'lush' in comparison..

Forgive me. I can only report what others have published with evidence to back their claims up. Using these things in a non controlled domestic situation is always going to offer differences I think...
Dave that is an interesting analysis.

I have recently appraised a pair of Spendor BCIIIs in a couple of systems with various components from Krell FBP 700cx 550i integrated and an Orelle SA100 evo with various analogue and digital sources.

Certainly the BCIIIs were a challenge for several amplifiers and actually quite hard to drive correctly.

They took power well and needed an amplifier with good current drive to get the best from them.

I am currently using a pair of KEF BBC LS5/1AEs and am pleasantly surprised at their performance.

More updates as I continue to listen.

Simon
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 9:26 pm   #24
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

The LS5/1AEs continue to run in, they seen reasonably easy to drive sounding rather better than the BCIIIs on a smaller amplifier so must be an easier load?
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 12:38 am   #25
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

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Looking again here a year or more on, may I make some observations to refresh this subject?

The Harbeth User Group is blessed (or cursed?) to have the owner/designer Alan Shaw as a 'very' active member. He's gone into chapter and verse about the LS5/8 and the smaller 5/9 NOT being a neutral speaker, despite the BBC design papers indicating the prototypes were indeed neutral. Both these speakers when newly manufactured and twenty odd years down the line, exhibit a deliberate? upper midrange dip which has been tested over many pairs of examples. Indeed, my own LS5/9's sound rather 'ripe' in the upper bass if not properly positioned well away from walls and on high stands (20" to 24" preferably with my pair). I've now abandoned my pair for now... Apparently, the LS5/5's were the last of the truly neutral BBC monitors.
Wouldn't mind hearing a pair of BBC LS5/5 monitors
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 8:42 am   #26
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

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Wouldn't mind hearing a pair of BBC LS5/5 monitors
It sounds like you're trying to build a collection of every type and variant of loudspeaker that has any connection to the BBC

That would, of course, be a very interesting collection.

But under what circumstances would you like to hear them? You're well into the territory where room differences and positioning differences should be very significant compared to the differences in amplifiers and speakers. If you went somewhere to hear a pair, your experience would be shaped a lot by the room they were in and its furnishings. The BBC were quite careful in designing their speakers for their target environments. So if you want to hear what they were intended to sound like, then you wind up having to remodel your lounge as a control room. (Or restore an OB van to keep in the drive for the smaller models?)

David
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 9:19 pm   #27
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Yes that is tempting to collect more but I lack the space!!

Listening to these speakers is a challenge as they were built for specific purposes and environments, as such it will be difficult to assess them fairly. I could get an idea in non optimum environments but as you say they would only work in the environment they were intended for.

Some say and as cites earlier in the thread, the LS5/5 were the last of the truly neutral of the larger BBC monitors?
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 5:13 pm   #28
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

I may look for a pair of LS5/5s
It would be interesting to compare them to the LS5/8s
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 5:30 pm   #29
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

A useful link here for BBC papers still available
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 7:53 pm   #30
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Hoping to get a chance to hear the Harbeth Monitor 40s soon wonder how they compare to the Graham LS5/8 system
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:12 am   #31
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Now set my BBCLS5/1AEs up in my second system with a Krell 550i integrated amplifier with excellent results.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 12:48 pm   #32
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

I have the Rogers BBC studio monitor speakers which were developed from the LS3/6. Very hard to come by with the original BBC developed woofers intact, but I recommend them if you can.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 2:49 pm   #33
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

I had a wonderful afternoon in the company of a pair of Harbeth 40.1's, which sang in my dealer pal's particular room and these were driven by an old industry stalwart Crown DC300A (mk 1.5 with satin front and overload lights). They did what I remember all good monitors doing, they just went louder and louder with no fatigue until the 300A lamps suggested that was about it... At more reasonable volume on another occasion, I compared this pair to the SHL5, which was then the current model. I thought the 5 was just a *touch* more 'seamless' on the bass to mid crossover region (you'd never know unless compared directly on suitable speech and similar material), but obviously the 40.1 bass was better (my own SHL5's react in this living room the same as the 5/9's do ).

I've not been able to get the 40.2's my dealer friend has into the dem room so far, but I'm told that like the SHL5+, the bass is tauter still which further benefits the lovely clear midrange. Would be great to hear from any of you who've been able to listen to them.

You lot may laugh, but the Bc2's with replacement SA2 drivers (from an engineer at Spendor) weren't sounding right. rather than the thunderous SHL5 bass in this room, they were sounding almost 'weedy' and fatiguing after prolonged listening irrespective of sources and amps. As the later driver seemed to be better behaved at the top of its range than the identical looking (surround aside) original, I decided to see about dropping the tweeter (HF1300) level down a bit. Derek Hughes (Spen's son and accomplished designer in his own right) very kindly gave some pointers on a proper additional L pad as the original tapped inductor used for this purpose can't easily be changed in value (at least by me) and after a bit of trial and error, I think I have them better now. Interesting how, in this room and with my tired old ears, taking the top down is heard by me as an increase in bass and midrange... (And all these audiophools of which I'm still on the fringes, tell you to ONLY trust your ears!). A bit 'organic' sounding now in comparison with moer modern speakers, but acoustic instruments are still well reproduced not too dissimilarly to the better known BC1 model, but with better controlled bass for the more percussive music I play a lot.

I'm still hankering after a listen to the latest version of the JBL 4312SE though, now the sqawk and screech of the originals has gone. Martin Colloms quite liked the 4312mk2 that was around briefly twenty years ago and these new ones appear further developed with stronger cabs and new tweeter design.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 9:48 am   #34
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

The KEF BBC 5/1AC active studio monitor is a system that interests me currently.

I know one of the engineers who worked on them at KEF have done since I was a teenager!! In a conversation we had a week or so ago about my KEF LS5/1AEs the passive version, this sparked up a renewed interest in hearing a pair or even acquiring a pair of them.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 10:07 am   #35
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

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Rather rare. I've heard them in studios I've visited but not seen any for sale.

A KEF-built speaker with a Goodmans bass driver and Celestion tweeters!

David
David Hi,

I have a pair of the passive KEF BBC LS5/1AEs which use the Goodmans 15 inch C129/15pr Bass Driver.

I understand the active version the LS5/1AC uses basically the same driver, but with a larger magnet assembly.
Earlier versions of them used the same HF1400 tweeters (a better HF1300?) then were upgraded with the T52 from the KEF KM1 with a magnet the same size as the one used on the KEF B300 bass driver.

Simon
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 10:20 am   #36
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_S_J_R View Post
I had a wonderful afternoon in the company of a pair of Harbeth 40.1's, which sang in my dealer pal's particular room and these were driven by an old industry stalwart Crown DC300A (mk 1.5 with satin front and overload lights). They did what I remember all good monitors doing, they just went louder and louder with no fatigue until the 300A lamps suggested that was about it... At more reasonable volume on another occasion, I compared this pair to the SHL5, which was then the current model. I thought the 5 was just a *touch* more 'seamless' on the bass to mid crossover region (you'd never know unless compared directly on suitable speech and similar material), but obviously the 40.1 bass was better (my own SHL5's react in this living room the same as the 5/9's do ).

I've not been able to get the 40.2's my dealer friend has into the dem room so far, but I'm told that like the SHL5+, the bass is tauter still which further benefits the lovely clear midrange. Would be great to hear from any of you who've been able to listen to them.

You lot may laugh, but the Bc2's with replacement SA2 drivers (from an engineer at Spendor) weren't sounding right. rather than the thunderous SHL5 bass in this room, they were sounding almost 'weedy' and fatiguing after prolonged listening irrespective of sources and amps. As the later driver seemed to be better behaved at the top of its range than the identical looking (surround aside) original, I decided to see about dropping the tweeter (HF1300) level down a bit. Derek Hughes (Spen's son and accomplished designer in his own right) very kindly gave some pointers on a proper additional L pad as the original tapped inductor used for this purpose can't easily be changed in value (at least by me) and after a bit of trial and error, I think I have them better now. Interesting how, in this room and with my tired old ears, taking the top down is heard by me as an increase in bass and midrange... (And all these audiophools of which I'm still on the fringes, tell you to ONLY trust your ears!). A bit 'organic' sounding now in comparison with moer modern speakers, but acoustic instruments are still well reproduced not too dissimilarly to the better known BC1 model, but with better controlled bass for the more percussive music I play a lot.

I'm still hankering after a listen to the latest version of the JBL 4312SE though, now the sqawk and screech of the originals has gone. Martin Colloms quite liked the 4312mk2 that was around briefly twenty years ago and these new ones appear further developed with stronger cabs and new tweeter design.

Dave,

I certainly would like to get a chance to listen to a more modern pair of Harbeths, and the JBLs too.

Quite funny and love the audiophools moniker friend call me an absolute Audiophile a remark I don't like as I'm sure it is with you the equipment is only the vehicle to get to the music as enjoyably as possible.

I frequently have tro rein myself back in when I am designing speakers to get back to the basics. After All that it is all about the music at the end of the day!! I am sure it is the same with you and have to keep reminding myself of that.

I am in design mode at the moment working on a big modular three way.

Can't comment on the SHL5+ nor the 40.2, but understand that some minor alignment changes and in crossover have indeed made for some improvements to an already nice cake.

Simon
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 11:06 am   #37
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Default Re: The BBC monitor sound Loudspeakers from Spendor Rogers, Harbeth....

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I have the Rogers BBC studio monitor speakers which were developed from the LS3/6. Very hard to come by with the original BBC developed woofers intact, but I recommend them if you can.
Yes not often seen in good or original condition, well reviewed by Martin Colloms in the past.
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