Fire/smoke damaged radios

[fatherjack2002]

Hi folks, not here posted here for a long time, but still been looking in on a regular basis.

So here we have it, last weekend i had a pretty bad house fire, which resulted in the front room being completely gutted and the rest of the house suffering smoke damage ,severe to the ground floor, and heavy/ moderate smoke damage to the other two floors.
Most of my collection has suffered in some way ( approx 50+ radio's in total) the upper floor radio's appear to be reasonably damage free with just light smoke staining (this was due to having decent doors with closers fitted ) unfortunately the radio's that took the full brunt of the smoke damage were on the ground floor and were my most show-able ones .
These being EKCO AD76, AC97, 1924 Fellophone Super three, with Brown Q Speaker, and two 1930's console's ( Philco and Pilot)
The fire restoration company have indicated even tho the rarity and value of to radio's they're not a viable proposition to attempt to restore/salvage !!

Bearing in mind the smoke ingress will be throughout the radio and not just on the cabinets.
What i would like to know from you wonderful Gents is the best way ( if any) of cleaning these, as the smoke created in a house fire is oil based and quite acidic.
The radio's had never been powered up and are just displayed purely for their aesthetic qualities.
Any help or advise will be gratefully recieved

Many thanks Paul

[paulsherwin]

Sorry to hear this.

I would imagine it's very like cleaning a radio that's been used by a heavy smoker for many years. Good old white spirit would be a good thing to start with, though if any of the cabinets are French polished you may want to take specialist advice from a furniture restorer. Once most of the filth is removed you can clean bakelite with T-Cut before repolishing.

The main problem is likely to be if the smoke has reached the inside of the tuning scales, as these are very difficult to clean without damaging the lettering.

I would experiment on one radio before doing anything else, or even better, try the techniques on a damaged modern appliance first.

[HamishBoxer]

Very sorry also to hear of this.My suggestion is to try CPC Foam Cleaner as we used it on cabinets from heavy smokers and the dirt just ran off.

[Scimitar]

Ditto for the foam cleaner. I discovered it for cleaning BBC model B cases with the texture. Foam cleaner is amazing stuff!

[Boater Sam]

They will clean up with a lot of care, they are far too valuable to even consider dumping.

Presumably there is an insurance claim? I which case they will pay for "profesional" cleaning service by a specialist. Fire/flood salvage companies are only interested in a fast fix method.
After my hot water flood years ago, the insurance paid for all our furniture and panelling to be stripped and French polished. As you display the radios rather than power them up they cannot claim a safety issue as a reason for not restoring them.

[Silicon]

The speaker cloth may be the part most vulnerable to fire damage and subsequent cleaning.

They usually shrink if you try to wash them. Try to clean them while they are still attached to the mounting board.

[lesmw0sec]

Originally Posted by Boater Sam

Presumably there is an insurance claim? I which case they will pay for "profesional" cleaning service by a specialist. Fire/flood salvage companies are only interested in a fast fix method.

Are "WE" not the specialists? I would be very careful about trusting such work to an 'approved by the company' insurance lot. I would be interested to learn who an insurance company would regard as suitable for such work.

Les.

[Boater Sam]

That was my point Les. But are there any forum members able or willing to take these on to prevent their loss?

[Tractionist]

Terribly sorry to hear about this - but nothing is beyond redemption. Old radios have a habit of self-combusting ..... but chassis/valves/cases etc. seem to survive to a large degree. Bakelite for instance is actually a thermo-setting resin and will take significant heat and punishment with impunity. Similarly, timber cabinets can be re-finished ....

But as Paul and others here have advised - scales and speaker cloths may well present your biggest headache.

The most important point is to proceed with caution - experiment with benign chemicals first e.g. soapy then clean water; white spirit as suggested by Paul; maybe IPA; certainly CPC foaming cleaner etc.

Another problematic area could also be fibreboard backs too ..... but don't cross any bridges.

I know that this must be heart breaking - but nobody was apparently hurt, and the radios still exist. We're all here to help.

[HamishBoxer]

I would be happy to help FOC. Anytime just PM me. Plenty of Foam Cleaner waiting.

PS Not too far away either.

[broadgage]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
I would suggest reasonably prompt efforts at cleaning and restoration because the smoke from a house fire is often very acidic. It is not the same as tobacco smoke.
The burning of PVC and similar materials tends to produce hydrochloric acid in the smoke and this is very corrosive.

It depends on what was burning and producing smoke. Wooden furniture upholstered with natural materials produces more benign smoke than modern furniture stuffed with and covered in synthetic materials.

[high_vacuum_house]

Terribly sorry for your loss at least no injuries but luckily decorating and other items can be sorted out over time and should hopefully slowly return to normality.

May be worth giving the cabinets a quick wash in the bath to get rid of much of the soot as possible. Did they get soaked with water when the fire was being put out?

Do you have any pictures of the extent of the damage

Wooden cabinets can have the finish stripped and refinished and will probably look ok. Brown Bakelite radios might come up ok after a good clean and polish. Light coloured items may well be badly stained.

The other issue might be any lingering smells which might be difficult to eliminate.

It would be worth checking over the chassis giving them a clean and then keeping them somewhere warm so even if you are just going to have them as a static display there is no soot/water/muck left in the mains/output/IF transformers ECT. which could make restoring them to working condition considerably more difficult in the long term.

Christopher Capener

[fatherjack2002]

Hi folks, i'm overwhelmed by the response of help/advice ,etc Thank You very much .
I need to get some pictures on line to show you the extent of the damage incurred, regarding insurance, i do have contents, but unfortunately as my insurance was an automatic on-line renewal, i failed to keep the contents value up to date , therefore my radio's have to take a back seat ( so to speak) as the insurance company will penalize you if you're under insured !!

This may sound a daft question, but what is CPC cleaner ? is this similar to foam upholstery type cleaner?,and are there any " better than other" makes i should buy ?
Going thru the house today there's a mid 40's Bakelite Philco that has suffered badly, this may be the "sacrificial lamb" of my experimenting on cleaning, its a comparatively low value item ( Ebay approx £30+ ) so there shouldn't be to many tears shed if it spoils.
Thank you HamishBoxer for your kind offer, i may take you up on this if its not to much bother. Please PM me and we can chat further.
my main priority to get on with will be the Fellophone and Brown speaker cleaned first, as i would say they're the "rarest" items in my collection.
Thanks in advance.
Regards Paul.............

[paulsherwin]

Opinions differ on this, but mine is that all foaming cleaners are more or less the same. I just use the foaming bathroom cleaner from either Aldi or Lidl. There's nothing wrong with the CPC one of you are placing an order anyway.

[Refugee]

Car wheel foam cleaner also works as well as anything else I have found and comes in bigger cans so you don/t have to go and buy a new one quite as often.
I have some experience of fixing fire damage but most of it is not relevant here apart from a little bit of a lighting circuit.
I have saved a couple of electrical items from stuff that was on the way to the tip after a fire and the worst problem was condensation from steam that was generated when the fire service got there and put it out.

[60 oldjohn]

I think most foam cleaners are very similar, but I bought a tin at a car boot, that particular one smelt terrible and had to use it outside. Unfortunately you can not smell it before buying online, and you may get some funny looks spraying it in a shop!

John.

[Lloyd 1985]

Hi,

Really sorry to hear what's happened

I must say, I've always used the anti-static foam cleaner from Maplin, was £3.99 last time I bought some, you can probably get cheaper / bigger alternatives, but I keep using it as I think it smells alright, and it works well enough for me too. It does make you cough a bit though if you breathe in right after spraying it...

As for cleaning fire damaged stuff, I have in the past cleaned up an 80's portable TV that had been smoke damaged, it stunk awful, so was stripped down and given a bath. The chassis wasn't bathed, I just gave it a good going over outside with a stiff brush and left it out in the sun a few times to air. It went back together OK and works fine, you sometimes get a wiff from it after it's warmed up after long usage, but not as bad as it was.

I have also used an ultra-sonic cleaner on a couple of radio chassis, one being an Ekco AC76 that was fully stripped down and rebuilt as it was quite rusty. I managed to salvage the original wiring loom, which was cotton covered and also treated to a wash in the ultra-sonic, came up like new! I'd hold off using any harsh cleaners on the outside of Bakelite cabinets like bathroom cleaners with bleach or Fairy liquid, as I always find that the cabinets can go dull and need extra work polishing them again, I'd probably go with T-cut, Brasso, Greygate paste polishing no.5... for sorting out the externals.

Best of luck with getting the sets back to good condition, anything can be repaired given enough time. I'm also not too far away if you want any help with Bakelite items, I'm still building my workshop, but it should be done soon!

Regards,
Lloyd.

[Jon_G4MDC]

Might be of some use that on another forum it has been posted that soot stained kettles can be cleaned very effectively with Cillit Bang (stupid name!).

I have a camping kettle that has borne the brunt of many Primus flare ups. It has soot ingrained in the paint which resists cleaning with everything I have tried so far.

To my surprise CB worked very well. Picture below shows the test.

Would I trust it on valuable radios? I don't know. Some other interesting uses for it can be found by searching online.

[HamishBoxer]

CB is fine on a chassis not too happy putting it on a cabinet though.

[fatherjack2002]

Hi folks, another "thank you" for all your suggestions and offers of help.
A question for Lloyd, what is an "ultra-sonic cleaner" ? this sounds very Dr Who(ish) lol
is this an industrial device ?

Once again many thanks too all, i'll post some progress reports as i go along.

Best Regards Paul...............