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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:10 am   #21
Radio Wrangler
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

If the worst did happen, you could trust the newspapers to make the most of it "He was using a home-made electric blanket/bedwarmer"

They would send you up as a complete idiot.

And the insurance company would have an excuse to just walk away. Your heirs wouldn't even get the insurance money on the house.

Smart councils are starting to do free disposal of small amounts of asbestos, knowing that many people would just put it in their normal bin, covered up a bit, otherwise.

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 12:37 pm   #22
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Don't even think about trying to re-use it, treat it as something from a bygone era, like strike-anywhere matches, playing with the shoe-shop X-ray machine and being able to buy arsenic and mercury from the high-street chemist. Gently put that bag of asbestos bits in another bin-bag, knot it and keep it somewhere outside but secure until it can be responsibly disposed of.

This sort of appliance really is reminiscent of that "Hidden Killers of the (insert era) Home" series!
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 1:34 pm   #23
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

I agree that this item MIGHT be better kept as a curio and not actually used.
If however the O/P is determined to restore it to working order, then I would use incandescent lamps as the heat source.
Several lamps of low power spaced around, rather than a single lamp in order to give a good spread of heat.
Vacuum lamps are preferable to gas filled lamps for this purpose.
A common loading was 120 watts, from three lamps each of 40 watts.

In the past, many electric bed warmers were manufactured that used lamps as the heat source, if used with common sense they had a good safety record.
They were intended for fairly brief use, not being left turned on and unattended for an hour or more as with an electric blanket.

Electric lamps are a relatively safe heat source because they simply CAN NOT produce significantly more than the rated wattage. Any significant over voltage or the short circuiting of part of the filament will result in prompt and safe failure of the lamp.

Asbestos should be treated with great caution, but without becoming excessively paranoid. Many persons have died most unpleasantly from asbestosis, but so far as I know these cases have resulted from long term occupational exposure, or from indirect long term exposure such as taking the dust home on work clothes.
I have not heard of anyone suffering as a result of very limited and "one off" handling of asbestos in say a vintage domestic appliance.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 1:55 pm   #24
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Another idea for re-using the thing; stick your laptop charger in it! Or even safer, put a small hot water bottle inside it, no electricity at all to burn anything then!

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 5:33 pm   #25
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadgage View Post
If however the O/P is determined to restore it to working order, then I would use incandescent lamps as the heat source.
Several lamps of low power spaced around, rather than a single lamp in order to give a good spread of heat.
Vacuum lamps are preferable to gas filled lamps for this purpose.
A common loading was 120 watts, from three lamps each of 40 watts.

In the past, many electric bed warmers were manufactured that used lamps as the heat source, if used with common sense they had a good safety record.
They were intended for fairly brief use, not being left turned on and unattended for an hour or more as with an electric blanket.

Electric lamps are a relatively safe heat source because they simply CAN NOT produce significantly more than the rated wattage. Any significant over voltage or the short circuiting of part of the filament will result in prompt and safe failure of the lamp.
I have an electric bed warmer powered by a single 60W lamp. I switch it on and insert it in the bed when I go to bed and switch it off as soon as my feet are warm - and certainly before turning out the bedside light to go to sleep.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 6:24 pm   #26
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

My step mother used a modern electric blanket to warm the bed prior to use. One day she left a pillow on the bed. There was smoke without fire!

We had an electric bottle which was very nice to hug. One night I noticed that the cable was missing. I have never got out of bed so quickly.

I have here what I think is a variable isolating transformer which may have been used with an electric blanket. Sometime I may investigate further. I would keep electricity away from thermally insulating materials.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 7:01 pm   #27
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

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My step mother used a modern electric blanket to warm the bed prior to use. One day she left a pillow on the bed. There was smoke without fire!
Modern electric blankets should have protection against going over temperature like this, but this is exactly the sort of thing that can happen with old bed heaters of all types. In most cases the bedding will just scorch and smoulder, but sometimes a fully fledged fire will develop.

Old blankets used to get really hot after an hour or two, and while they made the bed nice and toasty in winter they were a real fire risk, even in undamaged condition.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 8:14 pm   #28
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Pragmatically:

Clean up the area where you disassembled the heater, using a vacuum-cleaner with at least a HEPA-grade filter. Old-fashioned non-HEPA cleaners will not constrain asbestos-fibre dust, rather, they serve to disperse them into the air. As I had to repeatedly reinforce to the guys who machined Beryllium-Oxide thermal-conduction modules for me a few decades back - "Don't let your lungs be the filter".

Then - rather than using these old-style bedwarmers, just turn the bedroom ambient heating up a couple of notches!
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 8:48 pm   #29
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Slightly ot, I have a couple of foot long rounded rocks I put on my wood stove to warm up. Bluestone. Wrapped in a towel they stay warm into the next day. Reminds me of my granny who put bricks into her oven, over her coal fire. In a knitted cover they made the bed really cosy! Personally, I am not into central heating. I enjoy moderate variations in room temperature - but I am definitely into effective home insulation. My gran had single glazing and the fire in one room downstairs!
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 10:59 pm   #30
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Even with my fleet of round about 80 year old Belling Champions back at work supplementing the storage radiators I think I would chicken out of bringing this one into service, pleasing curio though it is. There are various safe vintage options if you want a bed warmed, not least the one I grew up with, the Bradley and Burch Glow Baby, which still comes up for sale quite often:

https://collection.sciencemuseumgrou...ric-bed-heater

Paul
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 12:41 am   #31
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

A few days ago I was moved to measure the power settings of a little square bed warmer panel much the same size as yours but more modern, maybe 10 or 20 years old which I use when it's chilly but not really cold enough for the full blanket, and has three power settings, I, II and III. The Screwfix power meter said 60W for each and I realised the settings are temperature settings. 'I' soon drops to zero, the others take longer. I've no idea what senses the temperature or how it works but it doesn't click on/off and there doesn't seem to be room for any electronics.

When you think about it, temperature control is the only safe way to run an electric blanket as the manufacturer has no control over the togs over and below it, nor the time it will be left on when you suddenly decide to stay up late to watch TV.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 10:02 am   #32
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

P.S. It's a Boots model. Plastic case solidly solvent welded together so I won't be looking inside just yet!
The full blanket does have power switching - 30, 60, 120W
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 3:04 pm   #33
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

I was involved professionally with house, business, and other insurances for many years, and I really would not use any old or home-repaired appliances of this type. Broadly speaking, a valid insurance contract requires that items (in this case the house is to be covered) should be kept in good order and maintained as appropriate. I wouldn't use 60 year-old repaired tyres on my car, then expect the insurance company to pay out when I ended up in a ditch.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 4:29 pm   #34
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

The Belling 'Bed Warmer' was probably the safest ever produced. It was a clam shell style mild steel cylinder with a 40W rough service lamp inside. A small red tell tale indicated if the bulb was still serviceable.
It was very popular with elderly folk because it was removed before actually getting into the bed. No fear of being fried in the night. I don't think there is an up to date version. J.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 5:09 pm   #35
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Very early bed warmers were not electric at all, but consisted of a metal container on a long handle. Intended to be filled with hot ashes from a fire and then inserted between the sheets and moved around to avoid scorching.

These were often later converted to electricity by fitting one or more electric lamps, in a variety of safe or dangerous ways.

I used to have one but gave it away to friends who live off grid. Currently fitted with 4 "bus bulbs" and still used.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 5:32 pm   #36
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

I'm sorry to say that the OP has basically ruined this nice old vintage item. He shouldn't have opened it in the first place, and when he did, having seen the asbestos, put it straight back together again without touching the innards. You need to expect asbestos in any vintage item that involves electricity that needs any form of both thermal and electrical insulation. My answer is always the same in that if this bothers you, then perhaps the interest/hobby is not for you.

Below is a picture of my totally safe vintage bed warmer that uses neither electricity or asbestos
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 6:40 pm   #37
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

As a display item it won't matter if it's empty and it's then completely safe, if a bit ineffective.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 7:08 pm   #38
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Quote:
I'm sorry to say that the OP has basically ruined this nice old vintage item.
Not at all, it is screwed together and taking it apart revealed a problem for now and the future. This is now sorted, whether it should be used in a modified form is a totally different matter. If it where mine I would go for the ali plate, metal clad resistors (say 100W total dissipation) and 60C, two in series to make sure, self resetting cut off thermostats route.

I ask the OP what is the resistance of the wire removed, it would be interesting to know the original power rating at normal 240V mains.

Last edited by Station X; 13th Dec 2019 at 10:19 pm. Reason: changed reviled to revealed.
 
Old 13th Dec 2019, 7:54 pm   #39
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
The Belling 'Bed Warmer' was probably the safest ever produced. It was a clam shell style mild steel cylinder with a 40W rough service lamp inside. A small red tell tale indicated if the bulb was still serviceable.
As the song says, "a picture paints a thousand words..."

By the way, on the subject of safety, this originally had a two-core mains lead with the metal body unearthed, so a loose wire inside could easily have rendered it lethal. Needless to say, it now has a modern heat-resistant three-core lead with the metalwork earthed.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 8:47 pm   #40
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Default Re: Rothermel bed heater

Lovely shade of pinky grey orange, best under a blanket. Joking aside, I bet it does the job, I use a cat.
 
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