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Old 21st Jan 2019, 10:35 pm   #21
Red to black
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

It is (geometry) surprisingly good on that set, some sets would never correct properly, or would change depending on beamcurrent, the SP tubes being the worst offenders.
Maybe Telefunken got the pick of the decent tubes ? the Thorn/Ferguson 68K4 never really seemed to be able to be set up satisfactory, you could get it reasonable, probably the customer never noticed, but I was never really 100% happy with them.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 2:44 pm   #22
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I was never happy with the geometry of those S4 CRTs either. You could spend lots of time on them, then they drifted - shades of converging a delta-gun TV! The menu system was good on them; they were able to do lots of clever stuff.
The last one I saw was a Ferguson, of course - no Nordmendes or B&Os here - which sat glumly out the front among the reconditioned sets awaiting its fate. One customer insisted he buy it, so knowing I was likely to be letting myself in for many repairs I named a silly price. He agreed, paid - and I never saw the set again!
I have a 59K7 basic ICC5 and a Pioneer among my junk which I doubt I'll ever get round to as they never were my favourite chassis. Banana shaped E/W coils, mains switches merrily blazing away and the 'three strikes and you're out' trip were some of the chassis's delights.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 12:23 pm   #23
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Yes it certainly was a swansong.
The ICC5 was the best of the ICC bunch. I can still remember changing flea sized BC848s in the scart switching circuits, both sound and vision. I used to spread a white sheet on the bench in case I dropped one while soldering. TWING.....Gone for ever.

The designer must have had some sort of syndrome where he had to use at least 10 surface mount 4148 diodes in each section of circuit. To be fair the picture was good but I always found it difficult to set up the grey scale drives to eliminate 'red sails in the sunset'. RIP Thorn/BRC.

The sun was setting on the repair trade. It was not so exciting to power up the workshop each morning.

John.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 12:30 pm   #24
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
. I can still remember changing flea sized BC848s in the scart switching circuits, both sound and vision. I used to spread a white sheet on the bench in case I dropped one while soldering. TWING.....Gone for ever.



The sun was setting on the repair trade. It was not so exciting to power up the workshop each morning.

John.
That would be the ICC 9 then, although it also applied to the rather rarer IDC2 chassis as well,
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 1:32 pm   #25
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

And the US got their CTC175 chassis as a amalgamation of RCA and Thomson design errors. Maybe it wasn't really that bad, but they did route important grounds through shielding, and apparently used the same soldering methods as the chassis we all know. What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 1:48 pm   #26
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Well Maarten, that was another thing where some engineers failed with the ICC5, is that the heatsinks were used as chassis returns, Sony and Salora also did this of course but it could be a trap for the unwary who were not aware of this fact.

As this chassis aged another strange fault became apparent in that certain parts of the printed track on the PCB became oxidised underneath the solder! particularly in the line scan current path, mainly around the line lin coil and scan coil connection area, the soldering after a re-flow job (not unusual ) appearing perfect of course.
This often led to intermittent destruction of the line transistor and in some cases (IMC sets especially) took out the chopper transistor as well!
I saw this first hand on at least a dozen occasions in the latter years with this chassis, the cure being to use a fibre pen to scrub back the PCB pad/s to shiny Copper again, it was visibly black Copper Oxide under the said pad and under the PCB lacquer coating!
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 6:10 pm   #27
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

The ICC5 was probably the best of the bunch. At least the service manual didn't have errors as did the ICC9 in the protection network! This was one of the few CRT sets I had to 'give up with'. This one was under warranty, 110degree nicam stereo widescreen, it refused to display any picture. EHT, field scan, line, CRT G2 and heaters OK, cathodes sky high... The sandcastle waveform looked perfect. After fiddling with the sets G2 setting I could display a teletext page and nothing else. I never found the fault, in the end the main defection/power PCB was returned by Graeme Young (TLO) to Ferguson. I never heard what became of it, maybe it was just scrapped! I still have goose bumps about these
sets 20 years on! Cracking picture on the one that's been restored though. SJM
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 6:37 pm   #28
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I think I fixed almost all ICC9s that crossed my path, a few were scrapped because of either board damage (frustrated engineer ?) and a few for lightning damaged sets.
They were about the least reliable of the ICC series, I think I just about had every SM transistor fail at some point or other.

I did far more than my fair share of these mainly because other engineers in my vicinity knew I would take them on, consequently I must have repaired several hundred !
There were mistakes in the early manuals, mainly showing a PNP/NPN (BC848/858) reversal in certain places, also not helped by the same transistors reading ok on a meter but being faulty nevertheless, they did show as faulty with a scope though.

Software discrepancies between the Text processor and the main micro was also a problem with certain dealer partially repaired sets that came my way. I did do a fair few repairs for other dealers at that time.

Ps. The earlier ICC were a doddle compared to this version, the IDC2 was difficult to repair too, mainly due to lack of extension boards on my part, plus the fact these used the ITT digi chipset combined with Thomson bloodymindedness elsewhere.

Edit: I was buying the SM transistors in multiples of a 100+
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 2:45 pm   #29
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Yes - the ICC9 used to lose pictures or sync or anything to do with the signal path! I just changed all the SMD transistors in the path rather than just the duffer for a reliable (!) repair. Not their greatest moment. Was this the chassis with dry joints in the tuner and IF modules that never seemed to respond to reason?
I have to admit preferring the later ICCs to the ICC5 as they weren't as complex.
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