The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Tommy91 · 18th Jun 2018, 9:05 pm

Hello there!

Tom here, former lurker, now officially a forum member *cue fanfare*

In my search for turntable advice I've often found myself browsing the helpful threads on this forum and have enjoyed my visits thus far. Looking forward to interacting with some of you.

Before I jump in I'll tell you a little bit about myself. Feel free to skip this part if not of interest, I won't be offended! *

I'm 27 years old from a dirty little city in South Wales (I'll leave you to try and figure out which one!).
Grew up mostly on cassettes and my parents' old vinyl.
As a teenager I was very resistant to the switch to those new flimsy shiny disks they called CDs. I much preferred the feel of a good old tape in my hand and proudly kept my walkman right up until 2004.

Eventually I caved in when I inherited one of my parents CD players and never looked back. Over time I got rid of my vast collection of cassettes as I finally took the plunge into the digital age. But although the cases were much slimmer and more economical, it just wasn't the same.

I've always taken a great interest in history, a trait inherited from my dad. I love analogue and am a keen film photographer (the Pentax SV is my current weapon of choice). Over the last decade or so, I've found myself particularly infatuated with the 1960s/early 70s which led me to purchasing my very first record player a couple of years ago. It was a cheapo bit of plastic, a Bush suitcase style turntable from Argos *gasps* I know, I know.

Thing is, since I started collecting vinyl, I've stuck to a personal rule of not paying more than around £15 for my records. I'm not a serious collector and probably never will be. I just love the music and the tactile feel of it all. Listening to an album all the way through seems to have died a death since digital came along.

* About a month ago I decided that I wanted "upgrade" to an authentic vintage turntable. Which led me to the pretty looking HF23 in the title of this thread.
I bought for £65 in good condition but with a known fault that the records were playing too slowly. I figured that it probably just needed a bit of servicing.

I took a quick visual inspection underneath the turntable to make sure that nothing had been damaged in transit and checked for any build up of old grease. To the untrained eye at least, all seemed to be in order, so I switched it on. Using an RPM tester app on my phone I found that it span fine at 45 rpm but a revolution slower on all other settings. The sound quality was very pleasing when playing singles.

At this point I visited the forum for advice. Some users reported similar issues that seemed to clear up after leaving the turntable spinning for 30mins - 1hr. I was hesitant but gave it a try, very nearly achieving the results I desired. It now span around 0.5 revolutions too slow. So close! Mama Cass just sounded as though she'd been at the meds again.

Then I came across this helpful video on YouTube from a fella who regularly takes apart these BSRs and refurbishes them. He's well worth checking out!
With his guidance I was able to take out the motor and give it a good clean before carefully re-oiling and refitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCFrHNuqF8I&t=459s

After popping the motor back in, tragedy struck. BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
There now seemed to be a noticeable buzz that I'm sure wasn't there before. It goes away whenever I touch a metal component such as a screw which, from what I can tell reading other threads, points to an earthing issue? Correct me if I'm wrong!

But worse still, the RPM seems to have fallen back to its original rate which measured at around 32 rpm for LP's and now 42 rpm for singles

So after replacing the stylus, buying the appropriate oil and getting a replacement motor (just in case), I've spent around £100 on the thing.

I'm at the point where I'm wondering whether to cut my losses, sell it at a loss and buy a ready-refurbished one online, or to persevere? I can be quite handy mechanically when I need to be, but electronics have always been a bit beyond me in all honesty.

Anyway, sorry for the long post!

ben · 18th Jun 2018, 11:26 pm

BSRs were never particularly accurate in terms of speed. Not 100% sure on the UA14 (which is the deck yours probably has) but on most there is a flat head screw which adjusts the position of the idler on the motor stepped pulley, try adjusting it so the idler is slightly lower on the step (but not fouling the one below). Trial and error time!

The buzz is likely a loose wire, check the tag strip (deck underside) and where the wires join the amp. You may also need to re-route signal cables away from power, if length allows. Maybe you disturbed the position. Should be relatively easy to sort it out. Don't give up after spending all that time and money. Just remember that these units are far from hi fi, to be honest they aren't much of an upgrade to what you had already. Fun though.

Tommy91 · 18th Jun 2018, 11:53 pm

Thanks Ben! I'll give your suggestions a shot and let you know how I get on

These sorts of players are crude in design so it's entirely possible that I've disturbed something while pulling out the turntable to get underside. Doing it always makes me wince! I'll have a fiddle.

Edward Huggins · 19th Jun 2018, 9:21 am

There will always be a degree of speed variation on mass produced autochangers of this period, though some were better than others. I would suggest that the performance on your 50 year old Monarch deck is as good as it gets. I assume you have cleaned the inner rim of the turtnable and the edge of the idler wheel - ideally with isopropyl alcohol. Also do be aware that the motors on these rarely fail.
In terms of the buzz, and your investigtion of earthing, do not attempt to earth your player with a 3 wire mains lead as it is liable to have a live chassis.

AC/HL · 19th Jun 2018, 11:01 am

More than liable, it has. This earlier thread has some relevant information: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=95468

Edward Huggins · 19th Jun 2018, 12:25 pm

Yes, this does have the ubiquitous UL84/UY85 amplifier (originally) with a BSR TC8H cartridge in the tone arm. One of the crudest built amplifiers I have ever worked on and with a miniscule OP transformer, yet somehow it sounded OK. If you have now replaced the stylus, and it is in the original cartridge, do bear in mind that this is for Mono singles and LPs only. It will damage Stereo LPs. In this model do note that there are no isolating caps to the tone arm wiring.

18th Jun 2018, 11:26 pm	#2
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) BSRs were never particularly accurate in terms of speed. Not 100% sure on the UA14 (which is the deck yours probably has) but on most there is a flat head screw which adjusts the position of the idler on the motor stepped pulley, try adjusting it so the idler is slightly lower on the step (but not fouling the one below). Trial and error time! The buzz is likely a loose wire, check the tag strip (deck underside) and where the wires join the amp. You may also need to re-route signal cables away from power, if length allows. Maybe you disturbed the position. Should be relatively easy to sort it out. Don't give up after spending all that time and money. Just remember that these units are far from hi fi, to be honest they aren't much of an upgrade to what you had already. Fun though. __________________ Regards, Ben.

18th Jun 2018, 11:53 pm	#3
Tommy91 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Newport, Essex, UK. Posts: 2	Re: The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) Thanks Ben! I'll give your suggestions a shot and let you know how I get on These sorts of players are crude in design so it's entirely possible that I've disturbed something while pulling out the turntable to get underside. Doing it always makes me wince! I'll have a fiddle.

19th Jun 2018, 9:21 am	#4
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) There will always be a degree of speed variation on mass produced autochangers of this period, though some were better than others. I would suggest that the performance on your 50 year old Monarch deck is as good as it gets. I assume you have cleaned the inner rim of the turtnable and the edge of the idler wheel - ideally with isopropyl alcohol. Also do be aware that the motors on these rarely fail. In terms of the buzz, and your investigtion of earthing, do not attempt to earth your player with a 3 wire mains lead as it is liable to have a live chassis. __________________ Edward.

19th Jun 2018, 11:01 am	#5
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) More than liable, it has. This earlier thread has some relevant information: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=95468

19th Jun 2018, 12:25 pm	#6
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: The Story So Far - HF23 With Monarch Turntable (BSR) Yes, this does have the ubiquitous UL84/UY85 amplifier (originally) with a BSR TC8H cartridge in the tone arm. One of the crudest built amplifiers I have ever worked on and with a miniscule OP transformer, yet somehow it sounded OK. If you have now replaced the stylus, and it is in the original cartridge, do bear in mind that this is for Mono singles and LPs only. It will damage Stereo LPs. In this model do note that there are no isolating caps to the tone arm wiring. __________________ Edward.

18th Jun 2018, 9:05 pm	#1
Tommy91 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Newport, Essex, UK. Posts: 2	Hello there! Tom here, former lurker, now officially a forum member cue fanfare In my search for turntable advice I've often found myself browsing the helpful threads on this forum and have enjoyed my visits thus far. Looking forward to interacting with some of you. Before I jump in I'll tell you a little bit about myself. Feel free to skip this part if not of interest, I won't be offended! * I'm 27 years old from a dirty little city in South Wales (I'll leave you to try and figure out which one!). Grew up mostly on cassettes and my parents' old vinyl. As a teenager I was very resistant to the switch to those new flimsy shiny disks they called CDs. I much preferred the feel of a good old tape in my hand and proudly kept my walkman right up until 2004. Eventually I caved in when I inherited one of my parents CD players and never looked back. Over time I got rid of my vast collection of cassettes as I finally took the plunge into the digital age. But although the cases were much slimmer and more economical, it just wasn't the same. I've always taken a great interest in history, a trait inherited from my dad. I love analogue and am a keen film photographer (the Pentax SV is my current weapon of choice). Over the last decade or so, I've found myself particularly infatuated with the 1960s/early 70s which led me to purchasing my very first record player a couple of years ago. It was a cheapo bit of plastic, a Bush suitcase style turntable from Argos gasps I know, I know. Thing is, since I started collecting vinyl, I've stuck to a personal rule of not paying more than around £15 for my records. I'm not a serious collector and probably never will be. I just love the music and the tactile feel of it all. Listening to an album all the way through seems to have died a death since digital came along. * About a month ago I decided that I wanted "upgrade" to an authentic vintage turntable. Which led me to the pretty looking HF23 in the title of this thread. I bought for £65 in good condition but with a known fault that the records were playing too slowly. I figured that it probably just needed a bit of servicing. I took a quick visual inspection underneath the turntable to make sure that nothing had been damaged in transit and checked for any build up of old grease. To the untrained eye at least, all seemed to be in order, so I switched it on. Using an RPM tester app on my phone I found that it span fine at 45 rpm but a revolution slower on all other settings. The sound quality was very pleasing when playing singles. At this point I visited the forum for advice. Some users reported similar issues that seemed to clear up after leaving the turntable spinning for 30mins - 1hr. I was hesitant but gave it a try, very nearly achieving the results I desired. It now span around 0.5 revolutions too slow. So close! Mama Cass just sounded as though she'd been at the meds again. Then I came across this helpful video on YouTube from a fella who regularly takes apart these BSRs and refurbishes them. He's well worth checking out! With his guidance I was able to take out the motor and give it a good clean before carefully re-oiling and refitting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCFrHNuqF8I&t=459s After popping the motor back in, tragedy struck. BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. There now seemed to be a noticeable buzz that I'm sure wasn't there before. It goes away whenever I touch a metal component such as a screw which, from what I can tell reading other threads, points to an earthing issue? Correct me if I'm wrong! But worse still, the RPM seems to have fallen back to its original rate which measured at around 32 rpm for LP's and now 42 rpm for singles So after replacing the stylus, buying the appropriate oil and getting a replacement motor (just in case), I've spent around £100 on the thing. I'm at the point where I'm wondering whether to cut my losses, sell it at a loss and buy a ready-refurbished one online, or to persevere? I can be quite handy mechanically when I need to be, but electronics have always been a bit beyond me in all honesty. Anyway, sorry for the long post!