Hoover Constellation 862 armature. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Darren-UK · 27th May 2011, 4:43 pm

Is there anyone who could attempt to revive the armature as per title for me please?

Recently I noticed excessive sparking at the brushes and the motor 'talked' to me, saying "I can't run at my intended RPM". Next thing, it decided to kill the 5A fuse in the mains plug.

On dismantling the motor, I found three or four commutator segments to be very rough on their contact surfaces. Further round I discovered no resistance between two more segments; traced to poor mechanical connections where the windings connect to the segments. As far as I can determine, the windings are all ok.

So it's looking like the bad connections need repairing and the commutator needs skimming or grinding or whatever the procedure is, if anyone has the facilities to do this.

For now, I've fitted another armature and all is well but the commutator on this one is approaching the end of its life. The faulty armature, on the other hand, is showing very little wear so may be worth some attention.

TIA.

twocvbloke · 30th May 2011, 7:32 pm

To put it mildly, you have a toasted motor, little chance of repairing it unless you can have the armature re-wound, otherwise it's time for a new motor, if you can find one somewhere that is...

Darren-UK · 31st May 2011, 12:39 am

Very possibly. This armature is now discontinued (oddly, you can still get hold of them for the Junior range) so a salvaged one is the only real and cost-effective option now. They do turn up, either in battered and tool-less Constellations which can be picked up cheaply or in certain cylinder cleaners from the same period which used the same motor.

The cleaner is now working fine with the near-life-expired armature I've fitted and as it only gets used infrequently I'm not treating the matter as urgent at present.

fidobsa · 31st May 2011, 1:56 pm

I have a couple of NOS armatures for Hoover vacuums but I have no means of identifying the right one for a Constellation. A photo of the old one might help.

murphyv310 · 31st May 2011, 3:13 pm

There are two companies close by to me in Kilmarnock that will rewind motors and repair your armature. Both companies were used by Jetclean my previous employer and did excellent work.
If Interested PM me and I will forward their details.

Lucien Nunes · 31st May 2011, 9:26 pm

If you've confirmed the coil resistance fairly accurately then it might indeed be fixable without rewinding. But shorts are much more common and even a few turns shorted together within a coil may have caused the comm damage before fusing off at the risers. I suppose the overcurrent may have been caused by streamers shorting the brushes each time the motor current was interrupted by the open coils.

I have repaired universal motor armatures with broken leadouts, with apparent success. However, before investing time I would examine that comm closely, in case the burning has loosened the segments in the moulding or carbonised it. They are easy to turn true, use a supremely sharp HSS tool and very light cuts at fast feed. Then a quick polish with glasspaper and reseat the brushes to the new surface. Centering accuracy is crucial, due to the high speed vac motors run. For the same reason, any repairs to the coil ends must be varnished in place or they might tear apart with centrifugal force.

Constellations are fun, I hope you can fix it. Sorry I can't undertake it because you probably wouldn't get it back for 862 years - we have a bit of a machining backlog here!

Lucien

Darren-UK · 31st May 2011, 10:41 pm

Yes I got good resistance readings from all the coils but I don't have the facilities to do a Growler test for shorted turns. Neither do I have a lathe upon which to skim the commutator.

One handy aspect of the Hoover Consternation is that you can peer into the exhaust outlet and see what's going on at the commutator. In this instance there was excessive sparking at the brushes but streamers were virtually non existent. The almost worn out armature I've fitted as a replacement shows not even the slightest hint of a spark.

27th May 2011, 4:43 pm	#1
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Hoover Constellation 862 armature. Is there anyone who could attempt to revive the armature as per title for me please? Recently I noticed excessive sparking at the brushes and the motor 'talked' to me, saying "I can't run at my intended RPM". Next thing, it decided to kill the 5A fuse in the mains plug. On dismantling the motor, I found three or four commutator segments to be very rough on their contact surfaces. Further round I discovered no resistance between two more segments; traced to poor mechanical connections where the windings connect to the segments. As far as I can determine, the windings are all ok. So it's looking like the bad connections need repairing and the commutator needs skimming or grinding or whatever the procedure is, if anyone has the facilities to do this. For now, I've fitted another armature and all is well but the commutator on this one is approaching the end of its life. The faulty armature, on the other hand, is showing very little wear so may be worth some attention. TIA.

30th May 2011, 7:32 pm	#2
twocvbloke Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Colne, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 527	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. To put it mildly, you have a toasted motor, little chance of repairing it unless you can have the armature re-wound, otherwise it's time for a new motor, if you can find one somewhere that is...

31st May 2011, 12:39 am	#3
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. Very possibly. This armature is now discontinued (oddly, you can still get hold of them for the Junior range) so a salvaged one is the only real and cost-effective option now. They do turn up, either in battered and tool-less Constellations which can be picked up cheaply or in certain cylinder cleaners from the same period which used the same motor. The cleaner is now working fine with the near-life-expired armature I've fitted and as it only gets used infrequently I'm not treating the matter as urgent at present.

31st May 2011, 1:56 pm	#4
fidobsa Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zala, Hungary Posts: 418	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. I have a couple of NOS armatures for Hoover vacuums but I have no means of identifying the right one for a Constellation. A photo of the old one might help.

31st May 2011, 3:13 pm	#5
murphyv310 Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 5,422	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. There are two companies close by to me in Kilmarnock that will rewind motors and repair your armature. Both companies were used by Jetclean my previous employer and did excellent work. If Interested PM me and I will forward their details. __________________ Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member

31st May 2011, 9:26 pm	#6
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. If you've confirmed the coil resistance fairly accurately then it might indeed be fixable without rewinding. But shorts are much more common and even a few turns shorted together within a coil may have caused the comm damage before fusing off at the risers. I suppose the overcurrent may have been caused by streamers shorting the brushes each time the motor current was interrupted by the open coils. I have repaired universal motor armatures with broken leadouts, with apparent success. However, before investing time I would examine that comm closely, in case the burning has loosened the segments in the moulding or carbonised it. They are easy to turn true, use a supremely sharp HSS tool and very light cuts at fast feed. Then a quick polish with glasspaper and reseat the brushes to the new surface. Centering accuracy is crucial, due to the high speed vac motors run. For the same reason, any repairs to the coil ends must be varnished in place or they might tear apart with centrifugal force. Constellations are fun, I hope you can fix it. Sorry I can't undertake it because you probably wouldn't get it back for 862 years - we have a bit of a machining backlog here! Lucien

31st May 2011, 10:41 pm	#7
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Hoover Constellation 862 armature. Yes I got good resistance readings from all the coils but I don't have the facilities to do a Growler test for shorted turns. Neither do I have a lathe upon which to skim the commutator. One handy aspect of the Hoover Consternation is that you can peer into the exhaust outlet and see what's going on at the commutator. In this instance there was excessive sparking at the brushes but streamers were virtually non existent. The almost worn out armature I've fitted as a replacement shows not even the slightest hint of a spark.