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Old 29th Dec 2019, 4:25 pm   #21
Skywave
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

Two remarks.

When producing a thread with a question, or replying to a question from someone else, it can be difficult trying to get a good balance between enough information to be useful & helpful on the one hand and being unduly verbose on the other. I often fall into the latter trap, as I'm sure many have noticed!

What I do find annoying is when a Q. is asked or a reply is given and then I find that I have to 'translate' the text into meaningful English. Often, I simply give up. (Note: I'm not referring to members whose first language is not English). I will add that this problem is not unique to this forum.

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Old 29th Dec 2019, 4:34 pm   #22
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

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Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
The two things I find slightly irritating is when a member posts without reading the thread, so you get the same advice twice or more. I am surprised there is not more 'Which is what I said' replies to threads .

The problem with "ignoring" members and thereby not seeing what they have posted is that you run the risk of stating what has already been said and making yourself look a bit of an idiot...

I just don't read threads which I have no interest in and cease to reply to and read threads when the advice is ignored.

However I sometimes feel advice is sometimes not so much ignored as not understood!
(This is the second thing I find irritating)
When a newcomer who is obviously not familiar with terminology and needs a slow methodical approach to the work they need to do is getting such advice and then someone comes steaming in with a highly technical reply that only a qualified experienced engineer would understand. This usually puts the original poster off as they feel either that the project is beyond them or worse they feel they are made to look stupid or thick.
When a member askes a simple question about restoration there is little point in giving a technical comprehensive reply about the whole job as it is just going to put them off..
They then cease to post and the thread grinds to a halt..

Nothing to be done about it though it's no good letting things annoy you its a case of being selective about what you read!
I agree with a lot of this.

Regarding repetition, I think yes there are cases where people don't read previous posts, but in many cases I think they just decide say it again anyway.

On the subject of total beginners saying "I've just bought this 1940s radio and want to get it going, I know nothing about 'electrics' ", what do you do? start with ohms law? tell them to change waxies? ? And to cap it all, you're 'aiding and abetting' them to dice with death working on live mains equipment. I don't have the answer to that one.

What annoys me personally is when I ask very specific advice and I get - in fairness well meant - advice on 'other ways to do it' including making this 'thing' yourself, and they add a few, sparse, 'totally useless in isolation' tips on how to do it. I have, in the past even stated that I don't require any deviation from my request, but still it comes.

Overall though, I think I can say for the vast majority of people on here, 'their heart is in the right place' as my mom used to say. And I guess more advice is better than none. I have certainly gained massively from advice on here.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 4:37 pm   #23
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

Some people do have poor English and/or keyboard skills, and some don't express themselves very well. Posting using mobile phones doesn't help the literacy level either. In the past the mods were quite restrictive about poorly written posts, but we let a lot more through now. It's just too much of a battle to try to enforce high written standards given the nature of the internet, and it's arguably unfair to prevent access by those with poor written skills. We just ask people to try their best.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 5:02 pm   #24
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Yes I accept all that has been said. However a judgement of the posters' ability can usually be indicated by the terminology they us. If they say they have no picture on an old TV for instance and think it may be the "scan valve" there is no point in talking about leaky caps or 'scoping the grids, the person will probably look for something that looks like a bottle top leaking and some sort of grille...
When I restored my first radio I was surprised at the amount of work needed. Despite being a TV engineer for 25 + years. I was used to finding faults. An open or high resistor, a short or leaky capacitor . To be told I had to replace all of the capacitors, check all of the resistors etc I found a little daunting.
I hadn't worked on valve stuff for decades and it took a little remembering/re-learning. (But I did understand the terminology used)
However with help from members here I was soon taking on a TV22!
I learned to work methodically and check everything twice! Within a few years I had restored a Thorn 2000. Something I found a little daunting to even repair back in the 1970's!

I am not saying anyone who replies to a thread is wrong just that we all started somewhere and it is better to encourage and teach a beginner than to bamboozle them with tech and scare them off . It is fine to recommend they take it and have the work done by a qualified person if they don't want to do it themselves but if they are trying to do it themselves then surely a step by step encouragement is the way to go?

When I see a big technical answer full of 'realign the left handed nurdlescrunge', 'test the emission of the flange pin' replace the BFPO .. when the OP is obviously a novice I just think the person replying either hasn't read the original request properly thereby not realising the person is a novice or wants to appear really clever to others....

That said I wouldn't say it bothers me enough to want to Ignore the person I just skip through their professing and move on to someone else's answer that is more appropriate...
Anyway I am drifting away from the original question here so it's probably time I shut up!


Rich.

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Old 30th Dec 2019, 1:38 pm   #25
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

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Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
The two things I find slightly irritating is when a member posts without reading the thread, so you get the same advice twice or more.
I confess that I have occasionally looked at a thread that I had left open from a previous day and replied to what I thought was the most recent post not realising that there had been several or perhaps a whole new page of replies in the interim.

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Old 31st Dec 2019, 1:18 pm   #26
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

New user moderation, in which the first 'n' posts by a new user are held back for scrutiny, can also cause a degree of confusion because new user 'x' may most an initial query, there may be a flurry of subsequent helpful replies to which 'x' replies, but his response is held for scrutiny by the mods.

When it is eventually passed by the mods it is inserted into the thread in correct chronological sequence but, there may have been half a dozen newer posts posted 'live' by current forum members and this can lead to the 'new' reply by 'x' ending up so far back in the thread that people don't notice it.

This then leads to a problem where people make more suggestions and ask more questions, the answers to which may already have been stated by 'x' in their second reply. 'x' then starts wondering why nobody seems to be reading what they actually said.

I understand the reason for new user moderation, but the above situation is one of the unintended consequences.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 1:47 pm   #27
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Question Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Some people do have poor English and/or keyboard skills, and some don't express themselves very well . . . etc.
Whilst I agree with everything that Paul has written in that post, q.v., I do wonder if some members fail to invoke 'Preview Post', prior to a final presentation. Now I'm far from perfect when I make a post and well know that I need to preview it first. And when I do, there are nearly always errors in all categories (spelling, grammar, factual content, technical accuracy, ambiguity, relevance, etc.) that require correction. However, even after making such corrections, I occasionally discover that the final presentation sometimes then requires further editing. Seems to me that the essential point is this: if you are going to create something, take the time and trouble to do it properly. After all, you'd do that if you were repairing / renovating a piece of vintage electronics, wouldn't you?

Al.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 2:19 pm   #28
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

Some message board software actually has it so the only button on the initial editing screen takes you to a preview; you can't submit a post without previewing it first.

If there isn't already an option for this in the Forum settings, it oughtn't to be too hard to edit the Source Code to add it. Just a quick regular expression match on (from memory, please don't judge too harshly) $_SERVER["REQUEST_URI"] should be enough.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 2:42 pm   #29
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I understand the reason for new user moderation, but the above situation is one of the unintended consequences.
You may or may not be surprised at the attempts spammers make to post here, or anywhere else for that matter. The initial moderation is the penultimate stage of our defences, which work well. New posters are pretty obvious to members, and a post count below 5 is an indication that responses may be slow.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 10:40 am   #30
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

For me, this is a forum for learning and if I post something stupid I would hope someone will tell me. Mistakes are very much part of the learning process. Repetition is also a necessary evil as it is often to support earlier posts when good advice has been buried beneath a mix of other posts.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 11:46 am   #31
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

I absolutely agree. However, it would appear that a large proportion of people would rather stay in blissful ignorance than learn something new and helpful. Don't know what it is, some sort of inverted snobbery maybe? Like you, I am always interested in learning something new and am always up for being corrected, regardless of the subject.

For years I used to write "proffesional" and nobody bothered to let me know. Very embarrassing!
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 12:07 am   #32
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Quote:
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For years I used to write "proffesional" and nobody bothered to let me know. Very embarrassing!
You can take some comfort in knowing that you are not alone!
For many years, I've always written 'supercede': should be 'supersede', of course. But logically, my spelling is consistent with the transitive verb 'to cede': to give up or to yield (something). So 'supercede' is the superlative of 'cede'. Even now, when I do write the word 'supersede', it just looks so very wrong. But note that above I used the word 'logically'. Ha! Since when, in the English language, has anything ever been 'logical'?

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Old 5th Jan 2020, 12:13 am   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
However, it would appear that a large proportion of people would rather stay in blissful ignorance than learn something new and helpful. Don't know what it is: some sort of inverted snobbery maybe? !
I know exactly what you are referring to. Apart from those people who have a recognised disability with learning, hearing and / or speech, I am of the opinion that the remaining cases are simply down to mental laziness. The "I don't care; can't be bothered; not interested; too much effort required" attitude.
Fortunately, such is non-existent here at this forum. And long may it remain so.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 12:40 am   #34
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Default Re: Opposite to subscribing to a thread.

I always thought 'supercede' & 'supersede' were two different words (and Mr Google thinks so too), but then I was never any good when it came English grammar, punctuation and spelling at school.

As you say Al, none of it is 'logical'.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 1:05 am   #35
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My Chambers dictionary does not list 'supercede'. I may be wrong, but I suspect that 'supersede' is of American origin.

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