Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

toshiba tony · 13th Sep 2022, 4:58 pm

Always thought it a bit unfair, but I saw a recent post on a BSR turntable and it prompted me to ask "which turntable won in the SP25 or MP60 stakes?"
Personally I preferred the Garrard deck, I think they were a tad quieter, but when I played around with an MP60 I wasn't as sure, any help please?

Aub · 13th Sep 2022, 5:23 pm

The SP25 probably had the bigger following, because I think there were more of them in use. We used the MP60s in our disco gear, back in the seventies, but never used the SP25, so can't really compare.

Cheers

Aub

RojDW48 · 13th Sep 2022, 5:29 pm

From the point of view of what they are like now - BSR for me. They didn't use Garrard's araldite-like grease - so they are much easier to get going again. Back then - I don't think there was much to choose.

Analogue man · 13th Sep 2022, 5:47 pm

The SP25 Mk1 and 2 were far superior (IMHO) to anything BSR made but after the Mk2 things went a bit down hill due to the usual cost cutting.

Restoration73 · 13th Sep 2022, 5:52 pm

SP25 Mk1 and 2 used a heavy diecast platter, later ones used pressed ally and had the
same auto return to rest as used on the MP60. I had both and noticed the MP60 had a
tad more rumble although most would not notice. I never got the chance to test the
diecast platter version of MP60 with fixed spindle, the HT70.

Radio Wrangler · 13th Sep 2022, 5:55 pm

I wonder if they used a bentonite grease....

The SP25 seemed to be the one to have of the pair, but soon the PL12D took most of their market, or was it that the market evolved rapidly in the PL12D direction?

David

Nickthedentist · 13th Sep 2022, 6:06 pm

I’ve only ever encountered these BSRs in the Barber Institue at Birmingham University, where the students could listen to LPs from the library through headphones. This was in the mid 1990s. I have to say I was as pleasantly surprised by how well they performed.

Didn’t they have a bigger platter than the SP25?

Edward Huggins · 13th Sep 2022, 8:25 pm

The early versions of the BSR MP60 had heavy deep platters, but the more popular P128 which replaced, it just had a light pressed steel TT. Go for the early SP25s or the Deccadec version.

paulsherwin · 13th Sep 2022, 9:03 pm

I always thought the various SP25 models and the MP60 were more or less equivalent. Both of them were designed to sell to the high end radiogram / unit audio market and neither were really HiFi decks, though many early 70s teenage boys dipped their toes in the HiFi waters with one of them in a cheap plinth (I know I did).

stevehertz · 13th Sep 2022, 9:36 pm

Having never owned either deck, but based on my own observations and recollections, I recall that the majority of the early 70s ads for base level 'hifi setups' would more often than not include the SP25 as the deck of choice. And of course, a pair of equally British Goodmans Minister or Celestion Ditton 15 speakers for good measure.

Aub · 13th Sep 2022, 11:16 pm

It's just come back to me that the BSR decks I mentioned earlier were BSR McDonnald. Don't know if the McDonald bit makes a difference?

Aub

ben · 14th Sep 2022, 10:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aub

. Don't know if the McDonald bit makes a difference?

That was really a marketing ploy, aimed mostly at the USA where Dr. McDonald of BSR had quite a name as a businessman. The decks were all made in the usual BSR factories.

Nickthedentist · 14th Sep 2022, 10:44 am

...and I bet they were "professional" and "precision crafted" too

Herald1360 · 14th Sep 2022, 10:54 am

"Precision crafted by professionals"

"Carefully designed for minimum production cost"

The latter is a perfectly reasonable subset of the former

ms660 · 14th Sep 2022, 11:25 am

When we were building the twin deck console for our home brew mobile disco, Garrard SP-25's were our choice, never had any problem with them and cueing for fade in was reliable once we got the hang of it.

Lawrence.

Beobloke · 14th Sep 2022, 1:04 pm

SP25 all the way.

The MP60 is one of BSR's better efforts but still has the arm pivot far too high, giving horrendously inaccurate VTA to any cartridge fitted.

Nuvistor · 14th Sep 2022, 1:55 pm

The later SP25s have a slide in head shell, that gave intermittent connection problems on its contacts unlike the earlier type. Easy enough to clean but not the best for reliability.
Don’t know why it’s was changed but the earlier type didn’t give problems.

Analogue man · 14th Sep 2022, 9:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

The later SP25s have a slide in head shell, that gave intermittent connection problems on its contacts unlike the earlier type. Easy enough to clean but not the best for reliability.
Don’t know why it’s was changed but the earlier type didn’t give problems.

Money!

Beobloke · 14th Sep 2022, 10:28 pm

Not true actually. The change to the slide-in cartridge carrier was made because it was vibrationally superior to the bayonet style headshell connection used on the Mk1 and Mk2 (and indeed the standard SME connector used on s-shaped arms).

One tends to think of Garrard as purveyors of cheap stuff and they were in many ways, but that should not detract from the in-depth research they carried out into all aspects of turntable design.

ben · 14th Sep 2022, 10:43 pm

'vibrationally superior'? How does one measure such a thing? Do you mean there's a bit less mass on the Mk III (lack of the securing ring and a shallower headshell)?

I would dare to suggest that any sonic gains made there would be negated by the rumble transmitted through the idler in any case, but I stand to be corrected!

13th Sep 2022, 4:58 pm	#1
toshiba tony Heptode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accrington, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 978	Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? Always thought it a bit unfair, but I saw a recent post on a BSR turntable and it prompted me to ask "which turntable won in the SP25 or MP60 stakes?" Personally I preferred the Garrard deck, I think they were a tad quieter, but when I played around with an MP60 I wasn't as sure, any help please? Last edited by Cobaltblue; 13th Sep 2022 at 5:18 pm. Reason: make title more meaningful

13th Sep 2022, 5:23 pm	#2
Aub Nonode Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire, UK. Posts: 2,039	Re: Preferences The SP25 probably had the bigger following, because I think there were more of them in use. We used the MP60s in our disco gear, back in the seventies, but never used the SP25, so can't really compare. Cheers Aub __________________ Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all.

13th Sep 2022, 5:29 pm	#3
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 From the point of view of what they are like now - BSR for me. They didn't use Garrard's araldite-like grease - so they are much easier to get going again. Back then - I don't think there was much to choose. __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

13th Sep 2022, 5:47 pm	#4
Analogue man Hexode Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Raunds, Northamptonshire, UK. Posts: 357	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 The SP25 Mk1 and 2 were far superior (IMHO) to anything BSR made but after the Mk2 things went a bit down hill due to the usual cost cutting. __________________ Graham

13th Sep 2022, 5:52 pm	#5
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 SP25 Mk1 and 2 used a heavy diecast platter, later ones used pressed ally and had the same auto return to rest as used on the MP60. I had both and noticed the MP60 had a tad more rumble although most would not notice. I never got the chance to test the diecast platter version of MP60 with fixed spindle, the HT70.

13th Sep 2022, 5:55 pm	#6
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,901	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 I wonder if they used a bentonite grease.... The SP25 seemed to be the one to have of the pair, but soon the PL12D took most of their market, or was it that the market evolved rapidly in the PL12D direction? David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

13th Sep 2022, 6:06 pm	#7
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,864	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 I’ve only ever encountered these BSRs in the Barber Institue at Birmingham University, where the students could listen to LPs from the library through headphones. This was in the mid 1990s. I have to say I was as pleasantly surprised by how well they performed. Didn’t they have a bigger platter than the SP25?

13th Sep 2022, 8:25 pm	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,338	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 The early versions of the BSR MP60 had heavy deep platters, but the more popular P128 which replaced, it just had a light pressed steel TT. Go for the early SP25s or the Deccadec version. __________________ Edward.

13th Sep 2022, 9:03 pm	#9
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,967	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 I always thought the various SP25 models and the MP60 were more or less equivalent. Both of them were designed to sell to the high end radiogram / unit audio market and neither were really HiFi decks, though many early 70s teenage boys dipped their toes in the HiFi waters with one of them in a cheap plinth (I know I did).

13th Sep 2022, 9:36 pm	#10
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,833	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 Having never owned either deck, but based on my own observations and recollections, I recall that the majority of the early 70s ads for base level 'hifi setups' would more often than not include the SP25 as the deck of choice. And of course, a pair of equally British Goodmans Minister or Celestion Ditton 15 speakers for good measure. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

13th Sep 2022, 11:16 pm	#11
Aub Nonode Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire, UK. Posts: 2,039	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 It's just come back to me that the BSR decks I mentioned earlier were BSR McDonnald. Don't know if the McDonald bit makes a difference? Aub __________________ Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all.

14th Sep 2022, 10:44 am	#13
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,864	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 ...and I bet they were "professional" and "precision crafted" too

14th Sep 2022, 10:54 am	#14
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 "Precision crafted by professionals" "Carefully designed for minimum production cost" The latter is a perfectly reasonable subset of the former __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

14th Sep 2022, 11:25 am	#15
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60 When we were building the twin deck console for our home brew mobile disco, Garrard SP-25's were our choice, never had any problem with them and cueing for fade in was reliable once we got the hang of it. Lawrence.

14th Sep 2022, 1:04 pm	#16
Beobloke Heptode Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 824	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? SP25 all the way. The MP60 is one of BSR's better efforts but still has the arm pivot far too high, giving horrendously inaccurate VTA to any cartridge fitted.

14th Sep 2022, 1:55 pm	#17
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,433	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? The later SP25s have a slide in head shell, that gave intermittent connection problems on its contacts unlike the earlier type. Easy enough to clean but not the best for reliability. Don’t know why it’s was changed but the earlier type didn’t give problems. __________________ Frank

14th Sep 2022, 10:28 pm	#19
Beobloke Heptode Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 824	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? Not true actually. The change to the slide-in cartridge carrier was made because it was vibrationally superior to the bayonet style headshell connection used on the Mk1 and Mk2 (and indeed the standard SME connector used on s-shaped arms). One tends to think of Garrard as purveyors of cheap stuff and they were in many ways, but that should not detract from the in-depth research they carried out into all aspects of turntable design.

14th Sep 2022, 10:43 pm	#20
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Preferences Garrard SP25 or BSR MP60? 'vibrationally superior'? How does one measure such a thing? Do you mean there's a bit less mass on the Mk III (lack of the securing ring and a shallower headshell)? I would dare to suggest that any sonic gains made there would be negated by the rumble transmitted through the idler in any case, but I stand to be corrected! __________________ Regards, Ben.