UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:00 am   #721
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,205
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
"Cables" meaning..
NO !
not cables...
INTERCONNECTS
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:19 am   #722
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,205
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJosef View Post
...That was an idea which makes extreme audiophoolia look entirely reasonable...
GJ
For anyone who hasn't seen it before, I recommend Anthony Zuppero's memoir, available online as a pdf.
http://www.neofuel.com/inhabit/inhabit.pdf
It's quite a long read, but is a magnificent (and, worryingly, true) tale of real mad boffins.
GJ's comment above doesn't even come close....
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 5:28 pm   #723
rontech
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
Posts: 645
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
All of which brings us back to wind-up gramophones and 78s, assuming at least one intact eardrum.
Yes!! If one plays ancient acoustically recorded 78s on a wind up gramphone. then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems. Direct cut records too!

Pure unadulterated sound.
__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana
rontech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:11 pm   #724
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems
Half the charge of atoms (neutral ones) are electrons, so ordinary stuff is half bad to start with.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:31 pm   #725
CambridgeWorks
Nonode
 
CambridgeWorks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2,850
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Rob
__________________
Apprehension creeping like a tube train up your spine - Cymbaline. Film More soundtrack - Pink Floyd
CambridgeWorks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:45 pm   #726
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,797
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Might be worth a quick google, but I think they just try to ignore us.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Apr 2019, 7:04 pm   #727
GrimJosef
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,310
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinshack View Post
I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Rob
Not really, in my experience. Outside their own field they're pretty much a 'live and let live' lot. Some of them are convinced that most of the rest of the world must be deaf. There's an overlapping group which lumps 'measurists' in with tailors who say "Never mind the quality, feel the width" and also with those uber-wealthy art buyers who value Van Goghs on their physical size (this was the case for a while among some middle-Eastern and far-Eastern buyers, apparently).

Cheers,

GJ
__________________
http://www.ampregen.com
GrimJosef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Apr 2019, 7:37 pm   #728
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rontech View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
All of which brings us back to wind-up gramophones and 78s, assuming at least one intact eardrum.
Yes!! If one plays ancient acoustically recorded 78s on a wind up gramphone. then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems. Direct cut records too!

Pure unadulterated sound.
As a matter of fact, if you play a good acoustic 78 on an EMG or similar, you can get results which seem startlingly real, at least on voice. Never mind that the whole process is a series of resonances, both on recording and reproduction - the Gaisbergs and others pushed the system to its limits by careful selection of recording diaphragms and horn arrangements, and could achieve remarkable results.
Ted Kendall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Apr 2019, 8:47 pm   #729
G8HQP Dave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 4,872
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinshack
I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Some of them refer to people like us as 'conventional engineers'; they believe that we never actually listen to audio equipment we are designing/debugging but just use test gear to measure THD (which they claim is the only figure we are interested in). They feel sorry for us, because they believe we are too deaf/poor/stupid to appreciate the 'high-end' equipment they have.
G8HQP Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Apr 2019, 8:55 pm   #730
jamesperrett
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,870
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley118 View Post
The reference to William Thomson, Lord Kelvin, was not entirely random.

In order to prevent the disturbing sound of His Lordship turning in his grave, we should remember one of his best-known assertions: “When you can measure what you are speaking about and express it in numbers, you know something."

Audiophiles have to bear in mind that it's this fundamental scientific maxim that's followed by the designers of the recording studio kit that generates the source material for their hobby.
You might think that studio kit is better engineered but modern studio engineers and owners are often less technically aware than they used to be. The cult of using different microphone preamplifiers for different sources is an obvious example - despite a blind test in Sound On Sound magazine a few years ago showing that there is really little difference when they are used in a sensible way. People will spend hundreds (or even thousands) of pounds on an expensive mic preamp and then partner it with a budget Chinese made microphone and use it in an untreated recording space.
jamesperrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Apr 2019, 11:11 pm   #731
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,205
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesperrett View Post
... an untreated recording space.
Yes, you'd think they would be able to hear what the room was doing to the sound, even if they don't know anything about the science of acoustics. Just a bit of basic treatment can make a big difference.

The same applies to the audiophools - for what some of them spend on snake oil, they could have a fully treated room and be amazed at how good a system can sound.

I wish I could have kept this one, and transferred it to my house (and just for fun James, try dating it from the equipment fit):
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Control Room 800px.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	108.1 KB
ID:	181631  

Last edited by m0cemdave; 21st Apr 2019 at 11:18 pm.
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Apr 2019, 11:48 pm   #732
fetteler
Octode
 
fetteler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 1,464
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

1985/6?
__________________
Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking...
fetteler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 8:27 am   #733
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,939
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
Some of them refer to people like us as 'conventional engineers'; they believe that we never actually listen to audio equipment we are designing/debugging but just use test gear to measure THD (which they claim is the only figure we are interested in). They feel sorry for us, because they believe we are too deaf/poor/stupid to appreciate the 'high-end' equipment they have.
30-odd years ago, an old university friend of mine went to work for Quad across in Huntindgon. He arranged for me to go visit one day, and I spent a cheerful couple of hours having a tour and chatting to the late great Mike Albinson.

Turns out they never listened to their designs, at all. They designed them as engineers according to hard electronics and acoustics principles, tested them using the usual raft of gear, production engineered them and sold tens of thousands.

And Mike had zero interest in Audio, in spite of being the designer of many of Quad's iconic products. His hobby was restoring and riding old motor bikes!

Their PCB design was a joy to behold. Mike taped it up at x4, and stuck it onto the end of a Dexion rack, under a skylight and facing the toilet door. In a hole in that door was a camera lens. Once inside the toilet, the photoresist board was taped to the wall, and the lens cap was taken off. After drinking his coffee, he would develop and etch the board and drill holes in it.

Once the layout worked to everyone's satisfaction and circuit measurement, and they were heading towards production, the final x4 layout was sent to the board manufacturer.

And that is the reason that all the older Quad gear (33/303/FM3 etc) were all single sided boards. Double sided technology certainly existed, but Mike's layout technique only gave rise to single sided boards.

Craig
Craig Sawyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:01 am   #734
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,797
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Try explaining a lens through a toilet door nowadays!

I had the luxury version. Taped up my layouts at 2:1 on mylar sheets with index pegs on a drawing-table sized lightbox.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:06 am   #735
Andrew2
Nonode
 
Andrew2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,033
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Forgive me, but is that ad for pebbles actually real? Not a p-take? I know Audiophools will believe almost anything, but pebbles? And the comments - are they also genuine, as some of them seem totally deranged!
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:10 am   #736
GrimJosef
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,310
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Oh it's real. If you want a more high-tech version you could go for Shakti stones http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/. These make your car run better too.

Cheers,

GJ
__________________
http://www.ampregen.com
GrimJosef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:57 am   #737
ekjdm14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Congleton, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 609
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Oh I need me some of those, one of ours is running a bit wooly and rich at the moment... Oh, or then again I could spend a tenth of the money on a new CTS & IATS and have the same effect

They do look nice though, great paired with these http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/hallograph/ if you can run to a couple of grand. (Worth it for the reduction in chaotic reflections?)
ekjdm14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 10:53 am   #738
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,205
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekjdm14 View Post
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/hallograph/ if you can run to a couple of grand. (Worth it for the reduction in chaotic reflections?)
Amazing. Acousto-quackery at its finest!

Control of early reflections does have a major influence on the sound in a listening room, but there are proper scientific methods of dealing with the problem.
You can go the whole hog and build a shell with angled sides and a rear wall full of diffusors, as in my picture above.
But in a typical living room or similar, some carefully positioned absorption on the side walls can effect a surprisingly large improvement, and at very low cost.

Last edited by m0cemdave; 22nd Apr 2019 at 11:05 am.
m0cemdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 11:05 am   #739
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,797
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

For those prices you could go the whole hog and have a live-in witch-doctor for a year.

The chanting would get on my nerves, so this isn't the approach for me.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 11:12 am   #740
ajgriff
Nonode
 
ajgriff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,583
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJosef View Post
Oh it's real. If you want a more high-tech version you could go for Shakti stones http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/.
Certainly 'real' in the sense that a website exists just like Machina Dynamica (pebbles). None of which proves that such sites are anything other than complete fabrications based on having a laugh after a good night out. The last customer review of the Machina Dynamica pebbles may say it all. By the way, shakti is a Hindu word usually meaning 'divine power'. Maybe that's a clue.

Perhaps one of us should try ordering one of these products? On reflection, perhaps not!

Alan
ajgriff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:56 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.